Yup. Search engines will basically be dead. Anything you’d type into a search engine you will probably prompt from an LLM instead.

But hand curated human directories should in theory have a very high signal to noise ratio. Every link should take you to a quality site.

Hear! Hear!

Sometimes I think about making public a utility or data set that I've curated for my own use. I don't necessarily intend to continue it or support it but I think, maybe some people would find it useful in its current state. And then I think about getting these comments all the time and it seems not worthwhile.

Let's bring back the webring.

It was tried before (e.g. Dmoz) and it does not work after it becomes popular.

I'm thinking more like just taking all the text files from 80-90s and making a separate static, frozen in time internet.

Hi, it’s my site. I’m sorry you don’t feel this hobby site run by one person doesn’t have a sufficiently transparent process. The process is: I add blogs that are interesting, recently-updated, etc, when I have time. And there’s only so much of that in life.

Another problem is that I like to add a variety of sites so that people following what’s recently added don’t get swamped by loads of blogs on one topic. And last time the site got on HN the suggestions (not “submissions”) were swamped with mostly men with rarely-updated blogs about computers. I’m expecting more now :)

I also enjoy searching for blogs that I find interesting and adding those, rather than relying solely on the suggestions. Honestly, I’ve been thinking of removing the suggestions form entirely, because it results in exactly this level of expectation and uncertainty about what gets “approved”.

And, yes, of course lots of blogs are missing! Look how many blogs are in there and try to guess how many blogs there might still be out there!

Plenty of blog aggravators with transparent curation processes exist, and are terrible. No need to make this one like the other others that are worse than it.

I'd argue there is a difference between a blog and a newsletter, but that would take longer to discuss than I have right now. But you're right that the boundary between the two is extremely blurry.

However, I'm guessing you tried to submit a Substack URL and was told newsletters aren't accepted? Even if I allowed newsletters, I wouldn't add any Substack newsletters because of the platform's fascist-supporting tendencies.

I’ve always enjoyed your curation, especially in the music department. Thanks so much!

FTW!!!

I'm part of one and I don't think it really promotes discoverability. What could work would be some kind of search engine restricted to said webring to make a button to list similar articles. At least I would click on such a button!

Thanks for the kind words. The source is user suggestions and my own searching and browsing.

I do sort of track outbound links, so that I can show which domains a blog links to most, which can sometimes give a sense of what the blog is about.

But, while I haven’t analysed the data, I suspect the links from one blog to another would be a very tiny percentage of the overall outbound links. It’s the kind of thing that might have been more interesting/useful in the olden days of blogging when more people linked to each other, and replied to each other, via blogs rather than social media.

There's an RSS planet that curates blogs about emacs, for anyone who is looking.

https://planet.emacslife.com/

I've been building a list of blog lists, and I know of 136 feeds that use that category tag. (Open filters, select emacs under category, adjust language as needed).

https://alexsci.com/rss-blogroll-network/discover/

Taxonomy labels are often deduplicated on Wikidata, the unofficial "hub" of the modern Semantic Web. There's already a defined property for matching DMOZ/Curlie labels, and others could be added if relevant.

I'm not sure where they are at this moment, but a while back Google seemed to abandon EEAT and SEOed pages in favor of pure domain authority. So it no longer mattered if you page had the all-important "Key Takeaways".

Blogs are still discoverable via aggregators and link sharing. But those are ephemeral, directories like this and search engines like marginalia are important resources.

lol

Even after the site being on HN last time, and getting hundreds and hundreds of tech blog suggestions as a result, none of them were about emacs.

What are your favourite emacs blogs?

pretty sweet!

Vim wins again

As someone who wasn't around in their true heyday I'm all for it.

I joined a web ring last year, but I'm uncertain about it. Modern web rings tend to automate updates to the next/prev buttons, so I'm never sure what I'm linking to. The web ring owner acts as curator, but I don't know how much effort they put in to keep slop or other undesirable content out.

I like the idea of some kind of algorithm minimalism, or at least parsimony; but I also think sometimes it might be appropriate? In this case, another approach would simply be randomization, which doesn't favor any name (Aaaaaron Aaaaanderson's blog :P ), this randomization can be consistent (such that you can find something you wish in linear time).

I think equally important is algorithmic transparency, that is, that the algorithm be publicly disclosed (although I think simplicity is a component of transparency: if you just dump a huge incomprehensible algorithmic mess somewhere that's not very helpful), so that you at least know what you are getting into, and better yet have some ability to choose and make educated critique of the current state of things (i.e. does the algorithm just maximize engagement like a slot machine? or does it optimize for some kind of helpfulness?).

That’s one problem with categorising blogs - they often shift focus over time, like Simon’s. I’ve added it to the AI category now - thanks for pointing that out!

So what? This website is just some man's collection of blogs, not a government registry funded by tax money. It does not seem to even take public donations. Why shouldn't its maintainer be allowed to exercise personal judgement in his curation efforts? Why does he have to justify putting one blog up there but not another any more than the New York Times need to justify publishing one article but not another?

It is weird how entitled people can get when it comes to things others create and distribute for free. The same seems to happen with open source software in general too. Somehow the ones who pay nothing, ask for the most.

You can be the first! (I'd be interested!)

And then what? You're looking at a list of hundreds of submissions and why they have been added or not added, which completely defeats the purpose of that website.

I don't get the point of these sites, because it I want a curated list, I visit the front page of hackernews or reddit -- and trust the system.

Ohh.directory I'd the same thing, except for a different selection process.

You either trust it or you don't.

It feels like we're _so_ close to having StumbleUpon back.

An RSS feed of changes would help.

Dmoz was trying to replicate the Yahoo! style of directory, which requires being comprehensive.

Today we don't need comprehensive, we need maximum signal and minimum noise.

This looks great. Your https://minifeed.net/about page is really nice too. Well done! You should make it a top level post if you haven't already

>> No blogs or categories were found matching emacs.

> OK then.

Exactly. This is a deeper problem with ooh.directory, that the review process is opaque. They do not explain why something is added or rejected. I do not care much about Emacs itself but I submitted several of my favourite bloggers who write about retrogames, gaming rigs, and custom keyboards. None of them were added. None at all.

I do not think we should be encouraging closed directories like this in the community. I would much rather see a transparent directory where the review process is clear.

fyi, I just signed up and the confirmation email went to my spam folder (Gmail).

Just wanted to say: thank you for making and maintaining this. I’m sorry that so many of the initial comments on this HN post are from one person complaining that their submissions didn’t get accepted. That’s the thing with the personal web: it’s personal! It’s what that person wants, which happens to be the thing that makes it great. If you don’t like it, the rest of the internet is still there.

> removing the suggestions form entirely, because it results in exactly this level of expectation

I think the expectation is less about the suggestions form and more because of the tagline "a place to find good blogs that interest you". If the tagline was clearer that these were hand curated, then I think no one would care about the process you currently have.

It’s not “useless” it just depends on what it is a user is looking for. I decided that alphabetical as default makes most immediate sense to someone arriving at the site. “Last updated” could also look a bit random initially.

> Must be written by a human

How does one ascertain this?

> Submissions go through an opaque review process and a lot of good submissions don't make it.

That's no different than the old DMOZ.

That's great, will you also add the category field to the text file in the repo? These projects are often heavy on tech blogs and I'd like to filter those out.

The no ai webring is full of really unique stuff. There’s definitively people out there still doing webrings. Now we need a metawebring.

https://baccyflap.com/noai/

>> Another problem is that I like to add a variety of sites so that people following what’s recently added don’t get swamped by loads of blogs on one topic. And last time the site got on HN the suggestions (not “submissions”) were swamped with mostly men with rarely-updated blogs about computers.

Essentially my trouble with every "share your blog" type thing that appears on HN. Some of the blogs do show some interest outside computers, but those posts are quickly swamped by more computer touching.

I appreciate the curation in favor of diversity of interest here.

edit: You can see it in a lot of the suggested alternatives elsewhere. I think it's hard for someone to really get it if computer touching is their life. Curation like this is vital to avoid regression to the mean.

Quick, Simon, pivot to cooking!

> So what? This website is just some man's collection of blogs, not a government registry funded by tax money. It does not seem to even take public donations. Why shouldn't its maintainer be allowed to exercise personal judgement in his curation efforts?

Unnecessarily aggressive response from you given that you are addressing positions I never actually took. Of course the maintainer is entitled to exercise personal judgement about what gets included. When did I say anything othrwise?

What I am saying is that, as a user, it is frustrating to spend time putting together submissions and then hear absolutely nothing back. I am not demanding special treatment, just a basic acknowledgement or a brief explanation when something is rejected. Expecting that level of courtesy when you interact with a project does not strike me as unreasonable. If that is considered entitlement, then yes, I suppose I do expect basic courtesy from people I engage with.

All I am asking is whether anyone might be interested in building something more community-ish, where decisions do not rest entirely with one individual. If someone creates that, I am happy to support it with my time and contributions. That is the only point I am making.

It was an amazing site. Just click on the bookmark and discover something new.

There should be a feed of “Recently added blogs” linked right on the home page!

Oh, hang on, what’s that I see on the home page?

I've submitted entries but they never get added. I have no idea how they decide what makes it into the directory and what doesn't so I've stopped trying.

> You either trust it or you don't.

don't see why it has to be this way. It doesn't take much to tell us what the review process is like and what gets added and what does not. If I know in advance that the blogs I submit are outside their scope, then I won't waste time submitting them.

I also don't see why there can't be an open directory of websites where the community makes decisions about what to add instead of leaving it to a single individual.

If you're not trying to be comprehensive it's not a real directory, it's just an ordinary "awesome-list".

I've been meaning to do this for a year now, still feel like there are things to improve before I do that :)

I'm not the site owner but it might help to share some of the content you'll see in Gmail when you hit "show original". That'll show things like SPF and DMARC pass/fail.

There's always some friction between implicit assumptions of reader and writer. I assumed they were hand curated. I've never seen algorithmic selection produce the kind of variety I see on there.

Honor system and smell test, I would think

We are classifying them at runtime, per entry. More accurate and LLMs are cheap.

Slop sucks and all, but those abandoned "let's make pages look like geocities" sites are pretty tiresome.

Yeah, from a HN point of view I imagine most blogs are tech blogs. But for me, trying to curate a wider selection, tech blogs should be a very small minority. There are so many non-tech categories that I’m much more interested in populating, never mind categories that don’t even exist yet. A real joy is finding a niche topic where there are loads of current blogs, all linking to each other. Blogspot is full of that kind of thing.

I'd like to argue that Wikipedia also tries to be comprehensive within the limits of relevant topics. And overall, Wikipedia still seems to be going strong.

You do seem particularly offended or annoyed that some blogs you suggested have not yet appeared on the site.

You can read the FAQ article to see the criteria for what’s accepted, and also reasons why suggested blogs haven’t yet appeared.

Ultimately it’s my own hobby site and so I decide what is “good” or “interesting” - so long as it meets the other criteria.

To be fair, I appreciate the technical effort it takes to build and maintain a directory like this. It isn't lost on me that many people like it. Kudos to the author for creating this. I absolutely don't mean to be negative about it.

But that shouldn't stop me from sharing my experience as a user. That it feels frustrating when I spend time making a bunch of submissions and I never hear anything back. But yeah, it's their website and their rules. Yes, it's one person making the decision. Yes, it's personal. I understand all that.

I was more interested in finding something less personal and more community-ish. where the power to add or reject submissions does not lie with one individual. Wouldn't that be nice?

But random orders lend themselves better for discovery? If somebody’s site is just AAA they will be at the top of the list forever, what value is there in that?

You've posted ten times in this thread alone... You never stopped trying, but you should.

>> "I also don't see why there can't be an open directory of websites where the community makes decisions about what to add instead of leaving it to a single individual."

Because no one who wants one has made it. Why not be the change if it's something you want?

If your response is anything other than enthusiasm to get started, you understand why it hasn't happened.

Give it a rest. The scope is in the FAQ. Blogs get added when I have time.

As you can tell from the site, there are many, many suggestions and I’m not finding time to add many new blogs https://ooh.directory/about/charts/

There is no guarantee any blog you suggest, even if it’s in “scope”, will get added before either of us die. If that’s a problem save yourself all this angst and don’t suggest anything.

would you call HN just "an awesome list"?

>I was more interested in finding something less personal and more community-ish. where the power to add or reject submissions does not lie with one individual. Wouldn't that be nice?

So, Hacker News?

Otherwise, be the change you want to see. if you haven't hit critical mass, the "community" will likely be 1-2 people getting he community off the ground anyway. How and if you want to scale from there will vary based on the ones managing the site.

I'd argue that Wikipedia and its 'sister' projects have accidentally cannibalized a sizeable fraction of the former 'non-commercial, non-business focused' Internet of the 1990s and early 2000s. If you're providing information in a way that's not intended to further some sort of profit motive, it makes sense to work within that large established project because that maximizes the resulting exposure. The rise of LLMs only makes this starker, every LLM is trained from Wikipedia.

> You do seem particularly offended or annoyed that some blogs you suggested have not yet appeared on the site.

I'm not offended. Just a little frustrated that I took the time to make some submissions of blogs I thought were missing but never heard anything back.

But you're right that it is your hobby site, so you get to decide what goes in.

>I was more interested in finding something less personal and more community-ish. where the power to add or reject submissions does not lie with one individual. Wouldn't that be nice?

This would be overwhelmed with AI slop within days.

Have you looked at MetaFilter? I've been a lurker there for years, but have never contributed so I don't know what that process looks like. But their tagline is "Community Weblog". It might be worth checking out.

The value is that it's slightly easier to browse an alphabetical list than a random one (no, I don't have a citation for this).

But, yes, it would be nice to have the option to change the sort order, as well as the current filtering. One day, if it doesn't make the UI too complicated. I value simplicity.

Appreciate the reply. My submissions fell within the scope though. I think I took the rejections too personally. Sorry for that. I appreciate the time and effort you put into maintaining the site. I will give it a rest.

Sorry for being a pain in this thread. Wishing you all the best with the project going forward.

The sole person running this site doesn't find the same things interesting than you do. How dare they.

The sense of entitlement displayed is really breathtaking.

> Wikipedia [..] have [..] cannibalized a sizeable fraction of the former 'non-commercial, non-business focused' Internet of the 1990s and early 2000s

Interesting take. Do you mean Wikipedia has cannibalized the traffic to these web sites or do you mean that Wikipedia lead to these web sites going offline altogether?

I've only submitted a few things, but never seemed to face a selection process. I think the low paywall is the only barrier.

if you know what you're looking for sure, but what if you're not looking for any specific site in particular, like the vast majority of people who visit?

> This would be overwhelmed with AI slop within days.

Why so? What's the logic? With ooh.directory, one person is curating it. With a community project, 10 people may curate it. What makes 10 people curating the list more susceptible to slop?

In which case they're in the pool of (currently) 2,888 other suggested blogs that I've yet to evaluate.

I think the challenge would be picking those 10 people, in a way that is satisfying to you and everyone. (Is there a good way to find 9 like-minded people on the internet who have spare time?)

And to prevent commercial and political interests from joining the community, and later overwhelming the original core team.

I think you're asking the author to organize a structure like Wikipedia, with talk pages and topic experts, which would be a significant undertaking.