You were supposed to be the bastions of freedom and justice, and the rest of the world begrudgingly admired you for that and were slowly improving to become like you, but ever since 9/11/2001 the rich old people that rule you have been feeding you boogeymen to make you their complacent b*tches and you lay down and crawl along and accept everything without even a whimper.
Now your countries are little different from Russia or China or Dubai etc where the old money cabals run everything, and it's not some third world backhole that was suffering already anyway, but you yourself that are the worst victims of all their laws and wars.
Slowly, and then suddenly.
The cracks were obvious when digital records made record keeping more practical, and the first electronic payment systems appeared, but once everyone was doing everything online the damn just burst wide open.
The UK's Online Safety Act originally had a proposal that would allow users to purchase an ID code anonymously in cash from a corner store, presenting only ID to the cashier the same way as buying alcohol. This was never implemented, because it's more useful for the government and corporations to link all online usage to a government ID.
the very same rules that have allowed literally every single piece of my data to be leaked several separate times, and now i have free credit monitoring instead of privacy? and all of those companies still operate normally, as if nothing ever happened? very neat.
>Discord said it is using the additional time this year to add more verification options, including credit cards, more transparency on vendors and technical detail of how age verification will work
and why didnt we start with credit cards? instead of facial recognition with peter thiel? (this is a rhetorical question)
I can see how the problem is real. (Not sarcasm.)
In technical terms, "balance" is trivial. Put an air/security gap between information collected for age verification and the dossiers they have on users.
In business terms, conflict. They have relentless incentives and pressures to collect, collate and leverage every bit of information that can increase their return on users. Legal gray and black behaviors are rampant and tolerated where protectable. The number of paths to a creative interpretation of "balance" is unbounded. Right up to the c-suite.
It is sad, but self-aware, if they feel awkward trusting themselves with a mandated database full of tasty information they are not supposed to taste.
If it was actually about kids, we'd have done it a long time ago. With more focus on things like porn and gambling (including 'loot box' gambling in games) rather than social media.
But maybe this is yet another attemption to produce mindless factory workers who won't rise against their lords even if someone inserts something something to them. While recording it, of course. For the profit... Erm, science.
Anonymous and uncensored information exchange can prevent the vast majority of violent conflicts and shorten the necessary ones. Most violence in human history could have been prevented if every human being had 1) the ability to telepathically communicate with anyone else in the world without being eavesdropped, and 2) the ability to broadcast information anonymously to all of humanity in real-time. I will leave the details of why for you to deduce. These things are within reach right now for the first time in history. So we can and should build the decentralized web, and democratize the entire computing supply chain all the way down to chip fabbing and electricity generation. It is the greatest unrealized potential of the Internet, and we mustn't cede ground to ensure the path to that future remains open.
This could have been avoided [1] if the real goal was to protect small children. No need for third parties or sharing sensitive data that will eventually be "ooopsie leaked totally by mistake" or outright sold/shared. No perfect, nothing is.
Probabilistic verification using behavioral signals and metadata (device age, account age, interaction patterns) doesn't perfectly verify age but massively reduces the privacy trade-off. Most platforms optimize for regulatory compliance, not actual safety.
we, as a society, need to stop taking companies at their word when they say that the obvious harms that are right around the corner are overblown.
[0] "Cypherpunks Uncut." https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt3hpb
But then I'm replying to @mr_toad so you probably knew that already.
>most people will not verify their age
>can't be sure they're an adult so treat everyone like children just in case
>wait what? the trojan horse allows them to monitor and surveil them?
I'm shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.
All for making sites to send a header with restrictions as they apply in law (age rating per location for example -- so a site could send "US:16 US-TX:18 IE:14 GB:18 DE:16" etc), and even categorise as not required in law (category=gambling or category=healthcare)
That gives the browser/app/accessing device the power to display or not display
The second part of this is to empower parents -- let them choose the age rating which can only be changed with a parental code etc. Make this the law on all consumer commercial devices -- i.e phones, macbooks, windows.
This is trivial and worthwhile.
Yes some 15 year old will build something in python in a user session to work around it as they have a general purpose computer, that's a tiny amount of the problem. Solve the 90% problem first.
Discord’s age verification is optional and only required to disable the image content filter, join adult servers, and a couple other features. I’m not saying it’s a good decision, but I am getting tired of the repeated claim that it’s mandatory to go do age verification to use the service.
This lazy reporting is hurting the messaging because readers will believe that mandatory age verification was implemented and everything is fine, so new laws will not change anything for the worse. It needs to be clear that age verification laws would change the situation considerably, not be a nothingburger.
I don’t plan to do the Discord age verification and neither do most of the people I interact with on Discord. It’s not mandatory.
I don’t recommend anyone rush to do the Discord age verification unless you really need to for some reason. Don’t believe all of the lazy articles saying it’s mandatory.
The second option is ignoring the verification request. Goodbye online-gaming-with-strangers on Xbox. (I see this as a positive). Same goes for Ubisoft who aggressively wanted my secret papers to verify my identity.
I've yet to come across anything I want or need outside banking or government use where age verification benefits me, or is so useful/important that I would willingly hand over critical secret documents. I've not even needed to use a VPN for anything. It doesn't mean it won't happen, but when it does, option #1 or #2 is going to cover everything.
Which circles back to the main point here - if I ignore it, then effectively I get identified as a non-adult. How does this protect anybody?
(UK-based, might not be the same everywhere)
I'm not saying the inverse is the answer either, just that if anyone without an agenda of surveillance looked at this for a second, the penny would have dropped. So I can only assume that this was the purpose the whole time.
To let antagonistic governments send propaganda to children is harmful. To let unknown adults contact children in private messages is harmful. To let children access pornography 24/7 is harmful.
I would expect a more balanced discussion. How to keep children safe is a priority, and there are technical ways to do so in a safe way that does not require to share personal identifications with social media.
If you want a better proposal bring technical expertise to the discussion instead of ideology fundamentalism.
I also wouldn't be surprised if there were plenty of people only dimly aware of the idea of a VPN who are now sitting up and taking note.
Privacy was already lost when everyone adopted mobile phones and gave them everything with constant location tracking, and used the free email accounts.
It's interesting that age-verification is the straw that breaks the camels back, but I guess porn has that power.
The west had a golden age from the fall of the Soviet Union, removing their main rival. It also reinforced its reinforced its belief in the inevitably of progress (the "end of history" nonsense, for example). They cannot now cope with threats or danger.
That said, comparing the west to Russia, China etc. is a gross exaggeration.
The fact that many independent national newspapers (including this article from CNBC) are openly calling-out the surveillance state and entering the debate into the public conscience should tell everyone that USA (and the West) is very different from Russia or China or Dubai.
USA is not perfect, but at least is has active public discourse. We can openly (and legally) debate these things, and if we convince enough people, then we can change them.
I've been proposing the same thing on this site for months. IMO anonymous age verification with no record-keeping is the only form of age verification that should exist. No zero knowledge proofs, no centralized government identity provider, nothing.
There are some long Github threads in the official repo along with a PDF[1] of cryptographer's feedback about the privacy issues. Also covered in this[2] article.
This is unlike BBS+ which supports unlinkability and which was even recommended by GSMA Europe to such address downsides. In the Github discussions there seems to be pushback by those officially involved that claim BBS+ isn't compatible with EUDI[3] and there seems to be some plateauing of any progress advancing it.
[1] https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-doc-archi...
[2] https://news.dyne.org/the-problems-of-european-digital-ident...
[3] https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-doc-archi...
Might not even matter ...
"TransUnion and Experian, two of the three major credit bureaus, have started dismissing a larger share of consumer complaints without help since the Trump administration began dismantling the CFPB."
https://www.propublica.org/article/credit-report-mistakes-cf...
That is getting harder and harder. Platforms that are not susceptible to age verification (yet?) are on their way out - when have you written an email the last time for personal (i.e. non-work, order or customer support related) reasons? A physical letter [1]? The (root) cause is, centralized platforms like Whatsapp are much much more convenient and on top of that network effects apply - when 90% of your social connections use Whatsapp exclusively, it's hard to not use Whatsapp as well.
And then you got digitalization of government services and banking. More and more governments push for the removal of paper forms and require a web service. Banking regulations enforce 2FA, which almost always comes in the form of a phone app. The web services require a browser and an OS, which may require age verification sooner than later (see the recent spat about California's law), and the phone apps are only available for the walled gardens of unrooted, Play Store certified Apple and Android phones - that can and will be forced to verify ages as well.
Hard cash is out as well, many governments have set hard caps on cash transactions due to "anti money laundering" laws, in other countries you need to have a bank account to pay for mandatory things like taxes or public broadcast fees [2], and an increasing number of vendors refuses to accept cash as well due to the associated handling cost and risk of fraud (i.e. employee theft) and robbery.
That last point alone will make it impossible to survive in society without engaging with one or more of the walled gardens.
And mercy be upon you if the US Government decides to put you on one of their black lists. No more banking, even as an European, because everything touches VISA/MC/SWIFT, your cloud accounts (and with it your phone and app stores), all gone, you are now an unperson [3].
[1] Some countries are already shutting down postal services over that, e.g. Denmark: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/21/denmark-postno...
[2] https://www.verbraucherzentrale-niedersachsen.de/themen/rund...
It is constantly people wanting convenience and vertical integration in favor of homegrown human solutions and then complaining that their rights are not met because of course they aren't. Corporations never cared for people.
Idk I feel like I writing a documentary. And not a response now
You gave up way before that
LMAO! Bro/sis/secret third thing, you won't even start to believe how brave our press was when Putin had not consolidated his power yet. Ever heard of NTV? Or maybe Sobesednik, which lasted until 2023 I think? TV 6 or TV2 perhaps?
Seriously, this better-than-thou attitude will be your downfall one day. I know it was ours.
For how much longer will they stay independent? Media empires love to consolidate; most of the largest video services will soon be owned by a fan of govt surveillance.
Selling alcohol to minors is illegal in the UK. Some do circumvent this by various means (e.g. fake ID or having an adult purchase on their behalf, both of which are also illegal), but the same is already true for the current age verification system.
Namely, you don't prevent it (I was 11 when I first saw hardcore pornography, on a VHS tape, at a sleepover party), but it does place a (surmountable) barrier in the way, which will reduce access to some degree. The degree to which that happens depends on a lot of things that are hard to predict. We have culturally normalized access to a lot of things for children, and reversing that will likely take more than just changes to a law.
That's the same question.
Meanwhile apparently 70% of Australian under-16's retrained/regained access to social media.
See, even intrusive, surveillance and privacy-busting methods don't work.
It really doesn't, and especially if the ostensible rationale is blocking the ills of social media. If your friends aren't there, there's less motive to waste a bunch of allowance-money dealing with a sketchy adult to get there.
You can be 30 and verify >16 today and >18 tomorrow, obviously without being 18.
But also, knowing someone's birthday without trying it to other information greatly reduces the risk of harm.
This would block the most common classes of abuse on platforms like Roblox, Fortnight, Lego (kids) Fortnight, YouTube Kids, Minecraft, and "educational" social networks / games.
Note that it doesn't require any centralized surveillance at all. Parents just need to control the kids' ability to create random accounts, by (for example) turning on parental controls as they already exist on most tablets/phones, and blocking app installation / email applications (or other 2FA vectors).
When the parent allows an account to be created, they just tick the "kid mode" box. This even works with shared devices that don't support multiple accounts (so, iPads and iPhones).
We’re rapidly regressing into prideful ignorance. People are being encouraged to drink raw milk and fear vaccines.
19 century illnesses are making a resurgence.
Citizens are being indefinitely detained for “looking” like immigrants.
So, the only benefit of the USA is that some media can still complain. And the regime just ignores and does what they want. Regardless dems or reps, they criticize the reduction of freedoms when they are in opposition, but as soon as they grab power, they keep reducing freedoms. It's like they are all just puppets of someone you can't even name without being called names.
> USA is not perfect, but at least is has active public discourse. We can openly (and legally) debate these things, and if we convince enough people, then we can change them.
Yep, they convinced you you are free because you can argue while keeping more and more freedoms and rights from you.
Today, the only difference between Western and Eastern regimes is that one side chooses the "Brave New World" way and the other the "1984" way. But eventually, they'll all converge into Zamyatin's "We" kind of dystopia that inspired both of these.
you can also introduce some jitter like changing age range only once a week/month/year for everyone
- There are servers that are labelled adult only because it's simpler to label _everything_ as causing cancer than it is to only label the correct things. I can't join channels for some games because they're "adult"; even though they're not
- There are servers that are getting rid of content because they don't want some automatic system to label them as adult, even though they're not. There's a game server that got rid of it's meme channel, because people could (but don't) post content that some system might see as adult.
So it is a bigger deal than you're making it out to be. It's negatively impacting people and servers that have no interest in having anything adult on them.
until it becomes law, like it is (or in the process of becoming) ~everywhere.
The direction of these restrictions is not “optional”
...for now ... What stops them from changing this in the future?
Additionally Discord may verify your age based on the collected data without consent.
It was used to bash interracial marriage, gay rights, suppress dissent, attack the first amendment, and now this.
Whenever you hear some dramatic story involving kids about how you have to live a little less free, know the tactic.
Slippery slope arguments and things like it are not going to convince people, "just parent your kids" is not going to convince people. Not because they're wrong, but because on balance they feel like the damage to children being exposed to this content is worse than the potential civil liberty issues.
It will be very difficult to explain to people why this is not the same as alcohol being age-gated and you having to prove your identity to access it. Technically there should be no real reason we cannot do age attestation without fully revealing our identities anyway, there will need to be trust at some point in the system but the reality of the real world is that there is already and it's far less secure than we'd like.
But the verification is not to prove you're a children. Everyone will be considered children until proven otherwise, which will not prevent this scenario at all.
Fine. All we need is a password-protected toggle in each app that enables child mode, and another toggle in the phone settings that locks app installation/uninstallation. Remote verification schemes are completely unnecessary. For details see:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47273612
The way people are reacting is not extremist at all. Remember, the government protects child predators if they're rich or powerful enough. What more evidence do you need that they aren't doing this for the children? We should call it out for what it is.
Everyone in China is constantly violating laws, the difference is that black letter law is essentially meaningless and the country is run by an administrative state that is controlled by the party.
You can't really get things done without breaking the law. China doesn't properly tabulate, and therefore cannot release, anything like accurate crime data. But the crime rate is certainly higher since it's pretty much impossible to even go online and do just about anything without breaking some law. What is written is so vague and nearly any conduct can fall under it.
The ambiguity doesn't make the country safer, they just have a media hegemony and active censorship. Healthcare is woeful and "cheap" comes with "quotas on patients seen" meaning that doctors frequently have 1-2 minutes to see patients and one can become an MD much earlier than one can in the US. And since the perception is that no food is really 100% safe, it's more acquiescence, and not confidence, that people show.
Hell, you having the option of choosing to opt into vaccines is even an improvement. In China you are stuck with the state prescribed schedule and that's it. Unless you're extremely wealthy, but then again, where is that not an exception?
So who should police that? I am in certain communities that try to be stricter on moderation (which I love!) but it's hard work, lots of people trying to be at the edge of rules (with normal things like swearing, insults, etc.).
Whoever labels adult only and does not care is not wishing to put the effort to police that it actually is not.
Personally I do generally mind much more annoying, aggressive, stupid posters (in various channels), than the fact that I am not allowed to post some stupid adult-looking meme.
The problems start when the space become not-for-children and identity validation is mandatory to use them, which will exclude people like me who categorically refuse to hand over personal secrets in order to have access. It does not warrant the inherent risk involved with granting access to personal details unrelated to the service offered. I reckon this will happen when someone decides it's better commercially to make a service adult-only than to moderate non-adult accounts. It's a slippery slope, and a predictable next step once adult have become accustomed to handing over papers for some services to have to do it for many, if not all.
Then I’ll deal with that situation if it arises.
Is your wallet big enough to afford to say no and unplug? Mine is but what about the 99%?
China is also a horrifying place to live unless you are content just to participate quietly in society and never put a political sign in your yard or even just talk about the wrong thing with your friend in a private WeChat.
https://reclaimthenet.org/china-man-chair-interrogation-soci...
It is also a totalitarian regime where criticising the state can get you, and possibly your family, ‘disappeared’
The current administration is only convincing the world that America is a threat. We live in an age where two oceans offer far less protection than they did when America rose to superpower status. The fact Russian intelligence operatives can so easily infiltrate American political discourse is just one example. Watch any congressional hearing about cyber and you might be forgiven for thinking we have already been invaded. Beating up on third world pariah states impresses no one but the current administration. The United States bombs Iran but blinks at Russia. The administration started a trade war with China then backed off, not one meaningful concession was achieved.
Unless America reverses course fast the decline will only continue. The world will move on. No country is inevitable.
Like,I don't like what I see in the US (I am not a US citizen), but in Russia or China you get KILLED for talking against the current government.
How can you even compare that
The fix is only barely in the realm of the possible. US states have to be given back their power, and the federal government must be limited to its original remit. This will let coastal states tend to pluralism, and resource heavy and or landlocked states tend to authoritarianism and as long as money and feet are free to cross state borders. It will all work out. Ditching first past the poles and mitigating gerrymandering would also obviously help.
Here's an example just recently:
https://www.npr.org/2026/02/17/nx-s1-5612825/flock-contracts...
It's a constant and ongoing public concern.
It seems like at least half of what everyone consumes in all of 'social media' is 'politicized' but no one is interested in debating. Debating would have to mean we're talking to those gross people from the opposite 'team,' asking them to justify the policy they are advocating for, listening to them, and trying to convince them of our own positions.
When was the last time we witnessed any politicians or activists trying to change minds? Right-wingers scream dumb slogans like "They're sending the rapists over here!" and left-wingers scream back their own dumb lines like "Racist! America was built by immigrants!" And both sides dismiss the other side's arguments as the nonsensical ravings of the evil and/or stupid.
I literally gain from using their services for communication and voice chat with friends.
“Literally no gain whatsoever” is completely wrong.
I’ve tried Matrix/Element for years. I’m still in some IRC channels. I know what the alternatives are I can confidently say I’m gaining value from the ease in which Discord allows us to voice chat, screen share, and invite less technical people to join.
___ said hamas beaheaded 40 babies and that turned out to be a complete fabrication. That fake info was used in part to justify killing thousands of kids in ____
meanwhile the recent strike on Iran resulted in 80 little girls getting killed (with plenty of evidence) and its swept under the rug while we get blasted about the 7 soldiers that died.
This is why you don't have a technologically effective solution, here. "Trust" in this situation is a weasel word for surveillance, just like the pinkie promise that Client Side Scanning would never be abused by the government. Trust would not stop child abuse, or meaningfully prevent access to online pornography. Trust is not a technical solution, it's a political goal.
If you have a productive suggestion, now is the time to voice it. All of the non-technical hand wringing is not helpful either, and feeds into the slippery slope logic that HN should be avoiding.
Thomas Trutschel | Photothek | Getty Images
New U.S laws designed to protect minors are pulling millions of adult Americans into mandatory age-verification gates to access online content, leading to backlash from users and criticism from privacy advocates that a free and open internet is at stake. Roughly half of U.S. states have enacted or are advancing laws requiring platforms — including adult content sites, online gaming services, and social media apps — to block underage users, forcing companies to screen everyone who approaches these digital gates.
"There's a big spectrum," said Joe Kaufmann, global head of privacy at Jumio, one of the largest digital identity-verification and authentication platforms. He explained that the patchwork of state laws vary in technical demands and compliance expectations. "The regulations are moving in many different directions at once," he said.
Social media company Discord announced plans in February to roll out mandatory age verification globally, which the company said would rely on verification methods designed so facial analysis occurs on a user's device and submitted data would be deleted immediately. The proposal quickly drew backlash from users concerned about having to submit selfies or government IDs to access certain features, which led Discord to delay the launch until the second half of this year.
"Let me be upfront: we knew this rollout was going to be controversial. Any time you introduce something that touches identity and verification, people are going to have strong feelings," Discord chief technology officer and co-founder Stanislav Vishnevskiy wrote in a Feb. 24 blog post.
Websites offering adult content, gambling, or financial services often rely on full identity verification that requires scanning a government ID and matching it to a live image. But most of the verification systems powering these checkpoints — often run by specialized identity-verification vendors on behalf of websites — rely on artificial intelligence such as facial recognition and age-estimation models that analyze selfies or video to determine in seconds whether someone is old enough to access content. Social media and lower-risk services may use lighter estimation tools designed to confirm age without permanently storing detailed identity records.
Vendors say a challenge is balancing safety with how much friction users will tolerate. "We're in the business of ensuring that you are absolutely keeping minors safe and out and able to let adults in with as little friction as possible," said Rivka Gewirtz Little, chief growth officer at identity-verification platform Socure. Excessive data collection, she added, creates friction that users resist.
Still, many users perceive mandatory identity checks as invasive. "Having another way to be forced to provide that information is intrusive to people," said Heidi Howard Tandy, a partner at Berger Singerman who specializes in intellectual property and internet law. Some users may attempt workarounds — including prepaid cards or alternative credentials — or turn to unauthorized distribution channels. "It's going to cause a piracy situation," she added.
In many implementations, verification vendors — not the websites themselves — process and retain the identity information, returning only a pass-fail signal to the platform.
Gewirtz Little said Socure does not sell verification data and that in lightweight age-estimation scenarios, where platforms use quick facial analysis or other signals rather than government documentation, the company may store little or no information. But in fuller identity-verification contexts, such as gaming and fraud prevention that require ID scans, certain adult verification records may be retained to document compliance. She said Socure can keep some adult verification data for up to three years while following applicable privacy and purging rules.
Civil liberties' advocates warn that concentrating large volumes of identity data among a small number of verification vendors can create attractive targets for hackers and government demands. Earlier this year, Discord disclosed a data breach that exposed ID images belonging to approximately 70,000 users through a compromised third-party service, highlighting the security risks associated with storing sensitive identity information.
In addition, they warn that expanding age-verification systems represent not only a usability challenge but a structural shift in how identity becomes tied to online behavior. Age verification risks tying users' "most sensitive and immutable data" — names, faces, birthdays, home addresses — to their online activity, according to Molly Buckley, a legislative analyst at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "Age verification strikes at the foundation of the free and open internet," she said.
Even when vendors promise to safeguard personal information, users ultimately rely on contractual terms they rarely read or fully understand. "There's language in their terms-of-use policies that says if the information is requested by law enforcement, they'll hand it over. They can't confirm that they will always forever be the only entity who has all of this information. Everyone needs to understand that their baseline information is not something under their control," Tandy said.
As more platforms route age checks through third-party vendors, that concentration of identity data is also creating new legal exposure for the companies that rely on them. "A company is going to have some of that information passing through their own servers," Tandy said. "And you can't offload that kind of liability to a third party."
Companies can distribute risk through contracts and insurance, she said, but they remain responsible for how identity systems interact with their infrastructure. "What you can do is have really good insurance and require really good insurance from the entities that you're contracting with," she said.
Tandy also cautioned that retention promises can be more complex than they appear. "If they say they're holding it for three years, that's the minimum amount of time they're holding it for," she said. "I wouldn't feel comfortable trusting a company that says, 'We delete everything one day after three years.' That is not going to happen," she added.
Federal and state regulators argue that age-verification laws are primarily a response to documented harms to minors and insist the rules must operate under strict privacy and security safeguards.
An FTC spokesperson told CNBC that companies must limit how collected information is used. While age-verification technologies can help parents protect children online, the agency said firms are still bound by existing consumer protection rules governing data minimization, retention, and security. The agency pointed to existing rules requiring firms to retain personal information only as long as reasonably necessary and to safeguard its confidentiality and integrity.

watch now
According to Rae Pickett, a spokesperson from the Virginia attorney general's office — one of the states that has been actively enforcing age-verification laws — officials view strong verification and data-handling standards as inseparable parts of protecting young users and ensuring age-appropriate online experiences. She pointed to litigation against Meta and TikTok as evidence that inadequate safeguards can expose young users to harmful content and experiences. Under the Virginia law, companies collecting verification data cannot use it for purposes beyond age determination and must maintain security practices appropriate to the sensitivity of the information under the state's Consumer Data Protection Act.
However, Virginia's effort suffered a legal setback when a federal court at least temporarily blocked enforcement of its law last week, siding with a First Amendment challenge brought by a trade group representing major social media companies. Virginia Attorney General Jay Jones said in a statement to CNBC after the court decision that the AG's office "will use every tool available to us to ensure that Virginia's children are protected from the proven harms of unlimited access to these addictive feeds. We look forward to being able to fully enforce the law to keep families safe."
Buckley says legislators do not need to sacrifice their constituents' First Amendment rights and privacy to make a safer internet and address many of the harms these proposals seek to mitigate. In fact, according to the EFF analyst, many lawmakers have recognized these approaches, such as data minimization, in existing age-verification proposals. But if legislators want to meaningfully improve online safety instead of building new systems of surveillance, censorship, and exclusion, she said they should pass a strong, comprehensive federal privacy law that protects and empowers all internet users to control how our data is collected.
In some countries, age verification laws may already require platforms to use methods like facial age estimation or ID checks, including in the UK, Australia, and soon in Brazil.
Major platforms based in the U.S. are staking out positions on how age verification should be implemented, though not without controversy, as the Discord example suggests, and coming after years of lawsuits alleging weak efforts to keep their sites safe for children.
Discord said in explaining its delayed global rollout that other than in countries where national laws require certain methods of verification, over 90% of users will never need to verify their age by any methods other than its existing internal safety systems that do not require user action. Though its CTO noted in the recent blog post, "We know many of you believe the right answer is not to do this at all."
Discord said it is using the additional time this year to add more verification options, including credit cards, more transparency on vendors and technical detail of how age verification will work, and once the system goes into effect, it will publish details on the percentage of users asked to verify age in its existing transparency reports.
Snap, which operates Snapchat, said it supports alternative approaches that reduce the need for platforms to collect identity information directly. "We believe there are better, more privacy-conscious solutions such as mandating age verification at the primary point of entry — the device, operating system, or app store level," a Snap spokesperson told CNBC.
Meta and Google did not respond to requests for comment.
According to Tandy, as more states adopt age-verification mandates and companies race to comply, the infrastructure behind those systems is likely to become a permanent fixture of online life. Taken together, industry leaders say the rapid spread of age-verification laws may push platforms toward systems that verify age once and reuse that credential across services.
"The way the trend is moving is definitely toward some kind of persistent verification of a user's age," Kaufmann said. In other words, a digital proof of age that travels with the user across platforms.
Tandy said over time, once a system confirms someone's age, it may not need to ask again. She compared the model to ecosystems such as Disney accounts, where a user's age is established once and then recognized across its services rather than being rechecked every time they log in, even years later.
For adults, that means an internet where identity verification is no longer occasional friction but a built-in layer of everyday access.
there are 0 "perfect" age verification systems.
plenty of minors can have their brother/sister/parents supply their id, or do the verification video. the on-device verification discord rolled out was, within hours, broken. i remember news reports of kids submitting photos of their dogs and being verified as of-age.
credit card solves most of the problem with much less downside than submitting my face (i am already okay putting my card info into most sites)
And most companies can simply price it in as cost of doing business at this point.
(If anyone is offended by this, don't worry, I'm talking about the other side; I'm sure your side is full of reasonable adults who just get a little carried away sometimes.)
Such as following directions from a YouTube video that instructs them to do sketchy things.
However, that makes me wonder what mechanism might "unverify" an account holder's age upon transfer. I suppose it's simply a need to re-verify (take a new photo) upon every login, but then folks could transfer the session cookie to avoid needing the new owner to perform a login (unless a new device ID/fingerprint makes the old cookie useless).
Is there any forum short of a senate subcommittee that the public can ask companies these questions? The silence is deafening.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47239736 "Ubuntu Planning Mandatory Age Verification"
I thought I saw one about Redhat too, but can't find it.
This has started happening in the US. ICE protests.
Mitigating gerrymandering is a lost cause with first past the post because someone has to draw the lines and whoever is in the majority at the time is going to find a way to benefit themselves. It's especially hard because in a state which is e.g. 60% for one party, drawing the lines in a "normal" way can pretty easily result in a bunch of districts that are each 60% for that party (i.e. they get 100% of the seats with 60% of the votes), and getting it to not do that is the thing that could require a bunch of strange looking lines.
Whereas if you switch from first past the post to score voting, gerrymandering is basically irrelevant.
First past the post de facto disenfranchises the majority of the district including members of both parties whenever the split isn't almost exactly 50:50, because then the outcome is effectively a certainty even if significant numbers of voters change their minds. Everyone who supports the losing major party or any third party fails to benefit them, and everyone who supports the victorious major party in excess of what they needed to secure the district is also not moving the needle even a hair.
Whereas with score voting, you can have more than two viable candidates, and then hyper-partisans can't win in a district where 40% of the voters hate them because they'd lose to a member of their own party, or a now-viable third party candidate, who can appeal to voters on both sides. Changing the composition of the district changes which candidate wins even when the change doesn't put a different party in the majority, and with more than two viable parties there may not even be a "majority" party anymore.
The problem is someone got the Democrats to start promoting IRV, which is barely better than first past the post in many cases and actually worse (i.e. more partisan) in some pretty common ones. Which in turn got a lot of Republicans to start opposing all voting system reforms because they didn't like the results. Meanwhile they would both benefit from using score voting instead of FPTP or IRV. I mean seriously, does either party actually like this partisan hellscape?
> The tendencies of landlocked resource heavy states are going to be authoritarian.
What are you basing this on? Where can I read more about this?
If you run into a liquor store yelling "Im finally 18, here's proof." that's on you?
They are extorting your identity from you and you're somehow OK with that.
Is all security a weasel word for surveillance? You answer a valid argument with a meme. It is very unproductive.
How do you suggest to disallow children access to pornography, harmful content, etc? Or are you arguing that any solution is worse than the harm that bad actors in search of money and political gain are doing to children?
Pushed by AVPA - a group of companies standing to profit from this: LexisNexis, some Thiel corp, etc.
So is Europe, and we are talking about the west in general, not just the US.
> Americans view of themselves is highly inflated by the sheer luck of being two oceans away from everyone during both world wars.
Again, most of Europe suffered during the world wars.
> The fact Russian intelligence operatives can so easily infiltrate American political discourse is just one example
They also infiltrate European politics, as do the Chinese.
> For Indigenous Americans it’s unthinkable, but true. ICE is arresting, detaining Native Americans.
https://idahocapitalsun.com/2026/02/10/for-indigenous-americ...
Detain first , ask pesky questions about citizenship and civil rights later.
September 11, 2001 is why Iran is being attacked a quarter century later.
that is exactly what everyone is angry about.
Not really, you'll just be forced to use services from eg google or meta. And pay for them. And share user data.
They changed their tune the second there was an open case on the matter.
There is a reason why I don't accept private enterprise as something separate from Government. The nature of the incorporation legal fiction makes them proxies of Government power and influence, hence why I believe private enterprise should in some ways be as heavily restricted by Constitutional guardrails as the Government itself (allegedly) is.
Iran had nothing to do with 9/11. If that was the point you were attempting it is incorrect. Not even the current administration is attempting that line of reasoning.
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/enforcement/enforcement-by-t...
Clearly the only foolproof solution is a 3rd-party camera pointed at your face at all times whenever you use a computer.
Most of the "Western" civilizations old enough to attempt comparison with China were not European in the modern sense at all. The classic example is usually Rome, which treated most of Europe as barbarians to colonize and enslave. The engine and wealth of the empire was along the Mediterranean. Ancient Rome was thus really a Mediterranean power not a "European" one. I think you could successfully argue Romans had more in common with other ancient Mediterranean powers or even ancient Mesopotamians than modern Europeans.
As to the rest of your points true enough. It is well known that today's Europeans find themselves in between a rock and a hard place given the current split between American and Chinese hegemony.
I don’t think the USA is necessarily changing at all, this is what it has always been the whole time
Many US states do not impose government surveillance or have age verification laws.
But the point I was mainly making was regarding the comment equating USA and the West to Russia or China. Go to one of those countries and we'll see how long you can openly complain about government surveillance before you end up in jail.
It’s also misleading in the context of this journalism because it makes it look like it’s already done and therefore new laws wouldn’t change anything.
It’s important to get facts right.
That won't save you from being targeted. Flawed methodology from the prosecution doesn't matter if all your stuff gets seized, and they really want to hurt you. See Black Ice:
[1]https://old.reddit.com/r/Freenet/comments/4ebw9w/more_inform...
[2]https://retro64xyz.gitlab.io/assets/pdf/blackice_project.pdf
The Roman Empire covered much of Europe about 2000 years ago, and those places have had a great deal of cultural continuity since then.
> Go to one of those countries and we'll see how long you can openly complain about government surveillance before you end up in jail.
Those people never had it any other way so their complaints are either "the usual", or come from people who can cause real trouble. Those people get silenced almost everywhere in the world. Want to know what Germany does if you "insult" a politician?
In Russia people openly complain about the government all the time, as long as this doesn't cause real trouble no one bats an eye. Russia has nowhere near the capability of the US and China to surveil people anyway. And in China most people don't openly complain because their lives are orders of magnitude better than just a few decades ago, many see it as the price for the better life.
"I'm not that bad yet" is never a strong argument. 50 years ago the press was "impeaching" presidents. Today presidents are "impeaching" the press. See the progress? It accelerates.
No, it is just being realist.
Public discourse is like wind. It comes and goes. But incentive based motivators are like gravity. It is a constant force, and sooner or later, it will win.
To make change, incentives should change.
Self-hosted vpns and b2b vpns will remain unaffected but that doesn't matter, they don't look for 100% coverage, 70%-80% is good enough
Just like the US, it can take a whike for thr CCP to get around to every individual. It's a large country. Your mistake is thinking that that's the line it has to get to before we can compare a country to China/Russia.
Where you lose me is: > I don't see much difference these days. Substitute wechat for X and that's the US for anyone non-white.
Again, I agree with you on most of your points. But I think you're doing yourself, and all freedom loving peoples a disservice by dividing the victims of this state action. Hence my sarcastic reply.
If there is to be any resistance to state over reach, telling the racial majority of the country that it doesn't happen to them or it's not a "white/euro american issue" is counterproductive at best.
Isn't that what I said?