https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/ejsb22/micha...
"Danny leaves the scene" (because it's just a bunch of kids with scanners and he's got a job at Eidos now) never forget!
e.g. I zoomed in to view the matchbox texture described in the article, and found it a blur. (Clicking loads the uncompressed PNG.)
Personally, I think for this page, loading full res images inline is warranted. The resulting 3MB page size would be more than justified :)
One should not forget where the demoscene is coming from: crackers. The whole point of "intros" was to show off the skills of whoever cracked a piece of software. So obviously, the views demoscene held on intellectual property are not mainstream, if we can say it like that.
The shift to a more creative and law abiding art scene, led by adults and not rebellious teenagers is more recent development.
The creative part in a demo wasn't the the art itself, the subject, the composition, etc., no, it was representing something thought impossible. Eventually, kinda like how photography changed painters' relationship with realistic representation, more powerful tech did the same with these types of demos, so the medium moved on.
Successfully integrating many disparate parts has always been the big ticket item. Dealing with the rough edges and making different ideas play together nicely is where all the value lives in most businesses.
So, no way to tell if the illustrations were illustrative.
It will change, but craft and "look what I did" won't go away.
Thus, some demos, like the one where Lazur's image came from [0] were just slideshows of very colorful images that were more than likely traced from something.
[0] https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3715 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmhffwhGiK0
I think things can look much better for pixel art that is either very low resolution (e.g. the small characters and objects in a SNES game, which would usually be just a few pixels wide, so every pixel has to be placed deliberately) or has a very low color depth (a pallette between two to ~16 colors, like the backgrounds in a PC-88 game), or both (like the sprites in a Game Boy game).
An example where higher color depth can ruin the visuals is "Snatcher" by Kojima. The backgrounds for the original PC-88 and MSX versions were relatively detailed (200x100 pixels perhaps), while the color depth was very low (8 colors?), which greatly accentuated the pixel-art look. However, the later re-releases added more and more colors and smooth gradients, which only made it look worse, like a mediocre comic book.
My top pick for pixel art would be anything by Made of demogroup Bomb, don't have a good link to hand sorry and need to change trains etc. Also check this amazing pixel art book: https://www.themastersofpixelart.com/
What is fundamental is this: every artist starts out by copying the works of others. It's how you learn.
And in that framing, once you publish your derived work, there is only one question that arises - if you don't credit the original author but sign your own name, you're fundamentally misleading your audience. Your audience implicitly assumes you made the thing. Maybe you made 95% of it, but if you don't give due credit, it looks bad once your audience discovers that.
On more than one occasion my perception of an artist has shifted once I discovered the "brilliant work" they created was actually a remake of somebody else's brilliant work. It's a feeling of being misled. It's never a feeling of "wow, this guy is a total hack and has no ability of their own".
Increased efficiency also seems to be part of its appeal. The limitation is you can't increase efficiency by just upgrading computer specs, but instead have to find innovating ways to use the existing resources as efficient as possible to make something great. These kinds of optimization or compression problems seems like something AI would be very helpful for, so I think it is premature to try and ban its usage.
Well - the edited image looks clearer in the rendition, but also more fake. So unless that was the goal, I prefer the more blurred image, simply because it is more authentic than that digital edit. Many AI images have a similar problem; they look very out of place. I noticed this in some games where AI generated images are used. The images look great but they simply don't fit into the game at hand or they have a style that looks alien. Case in point was mods for the game Baldur's Gate 2 EE, where these images are great but they look very outside-ish. And that's a problem that seems to be hard to get rid of from such generated images, at the least for most of those I saw so far.
The Revision demo party is soon. From the competition rules for "Oldskool Graphics" [0]:
> Include exactly 10 (ten) working stages of your entry. All entries without plausible working stages will be disqualified.
Yikes...
The rules for "Modern Graphics" [1] and "Paintover" similarly also require work stages, but fewer.
[0]: https://2026.revision-party.net/competitions/oldskool/#oldsk...
[1]: https://2026.revision-party.net/competitions/graphics/#moder...
People wanting to explore the use of generative AI for vintage computers is happening not just for graphics but for code too.
I think in the case of code though, it's still interesting because I don't believe there's been any success yet. I hear of people having success with Claude in contemporary settings but it seems to fare less well when working for older computing platforms. There's a reason for that of course and it's worth exploring.
However, it will cease to be interesting as soon as the first person manages to create something substantial. At the point, the scene should probably shun it for the reasons stated in the quote.
There are those who use AI as part of their process proudly, but secretly, because they know they will receive abuse.
I really wonder how some people think of themselves as artists while simultaneously attacking another persons choice of self expression.
The hidden deciding factor nevertheless was time. And that affected the whole production cycle: coding, graphics, music, crunching, copying, spreading (postal services!).
We had way more snow back then and we enjoyed working on something for hours till the wee hours.
18 was a deciding factor because after that military service killed quite a few scener careers.
Have a look at all the pr0n stuff pixel graphics that were cherished by the young studs as well as all the scroll texts as well as early disk magazines or pictures of programmers in computer magazines, with lots of profanity and simply stating age competition: 14 years old scolding 13 years old…
If it's indistinguishable from the real thing but made without any of the traditional tools, it's remarkable, even if you think it's lame in any way at all.
You will still see plenty of e.g. SID covers of existing pop music, without anyone really batting an eyelid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping
Spaceballs’ State Of The Art and 9 Fingers are a couple of Amiga demoscene productions that relied on rotoscoping.
Because AI art is not art, and rips off existing artwork in a way that is more than learning from the style and imitating.
Sprite animation in particular is bad unless you build a bespoke engine to spit out sequential PNGs.
A poser will give, but not withstand (and internalize) critique. An artist is too busy producing or suffering to care.
I made the images in Deluxe Paint when I was 16-18 years old. It was a lovely surprise to be contacted two decades later by the author who wanted to print them in this beautiful book among many far more talented artists.
That whole site (and more) is worth checking out of course. My favorite pixel art image at the moment is this: https://amiga.lychesis.net/sceners/Facet.html#Facet_SamTakin...
Snatched the collection. Thanks for mentioning it!
They wouldn't copy each other for copyright infringement as much as it was a mark of respect. They carried each other's arts as an evolution and respect towards each other rather than copying; all bringing a small twist on what was before.
The spirit of the famous - cited in the TFA as well - quote "great artists steal" is exactly that. If you don't know that the inspiration came from somewhere and believe that what an artist did was created in a vacuum, you will certainly think much higher of said artist.
You can crib techniques from other people but unless you also show that you understand them deeply, e.g. by creative adaptions, you'll still be considered a lamer even though your results match those of someone else.
This is one of the reasons why the demo scene still has a lot of physical events, it's part of the socialisation process to be in the same room as other people, putting in your final touches while they observe and produce distractions that in practice validate your abilities and respectable refusal to take shortcuts.
There were plenty of images that amazed me back then even though I was perfectly aware of the source material. It depends on the platform, and the amount of effort going into recreating it. Reinterpreting an image for a C64 or Amiga with a restricted palette is a skill in itself. Copying it for a platform, or in a style / resolution / bitmap depth, where you might as well use a scanner, not so much (and so, of course, the accusations became more and more frequent, often warranted).
Copying it and trying to pass something off as original is of course also very different from acknowledging the original and letting the conversion stand on its own as what it is.
Are you talking about some sort of hypothetical future Super-AGI?
I still see them as largely related? That not considered the case?
Almost every respected art form today was birthed to cries of "That is not art"
Questions: 1) Which AI platform did you use? 2) Did it create a binary image of the floppy disk (an ADF perhaps)? If not, what form did it take?
The same could be said of a lot of retro themed games. They frequently do not adhere to the same requirement such as number of colours per attribute cell. Nevertheless, they are producing a style that they are aiming for.
But I agree that GenAI tends to suck at pixel art. It will be interesting to see how much that changes. More importantly poor quality art is still art, and frequently making poor art is the first step towards making great art. You don't have to like or applaud things you don't feel are very good. It is just not kind or useful to attack the artist.
>A poser will give, but not withstand (and internalize) critique. An artist is too busy producing or suffering to care.
This is my sense as well. The bulk of the aggressive behaviour seems to be coming from people whose identity values that they can produce things others cannot. Those who like just producing things are still just producing things.
The entire notion of "intellectual property" is the creation of an artificial monopoly rooted in very distinct and separate goals from physical property that requires separate laws if you want to restrict copying or exploitation, because property law explicitly does not cover them.
Most copyright laws are also justified implicitly or directly in the legal texts allowing them as creating an incentive for the advancement of the arts and sciences - a temporary monopoly right granted by the state as a deviation from perceived "natural right" - on the belief that granting that right creates more benefits for the public than not having them, by encouraging the creation of more works.
And no copyright law protects your ideas. They protect the specific expression of them. Patents - which do protect ideas - are by design far more restricted and limited exactly because they are far more invasive in depriving the public of use of the very idea for the duration.
Eventually you get to the point where someone asks why the tree is theirs and they say it's because someone in history planted it, they were a relative, so it is mine now. It is hard to assert a moral justification for long term hereditary ownership without inviting investigations on how it was those ancestors came to have the resources that caused the ownership to begin.
Personally I'm not convinced by the arguments for private property, which makes your comparison even weirder than you likely intended.
Using a model is posing a live person and/or some objects and setting up lights and painting from that. Artists have done this for years. I've done this. Rockwell did this.
Using photo reference is taking photographs (yours or others') and working from those. I've done this. Rockwell did this too!
Tracing is placing your reference image beneath or over your canvas, and tracing the contours you see in it. Tracing paper, chroma-key, projectors, camera lucidia, tracing the image onto acetate and taping that to your Amiga's monitor to trace it again in DPaint, dropping ref into one layer in Photoshop and working over it in another one, these are all methods of tracing. I've done them all! Rockwell probably did this now and then, with the caveat that a pro's tracing is a very different beast from a beginner's - it's easy for a beginner to just trace the contours with no thought as to how they come together into a 3d shape, and get a drawing that feels dead and lifeless and subtly wrong. Saying someone's work looks like a tracing is kind of an insult.
Rotoscoping is explicitly a process of tracing/referencing a sequence of images to produce a sequence of images rather than a single image. It is related! But this article is entirely discussing the way demoscene artists would reproduce a static image, so roto does not apply here. Rockwell painted static images; he never did this.
(It's certainly possible that Rockwell could have taken single frames of film and had them printed for reference, but that's still not roto. Roto's explicitly an animation process that results in a series of drawings based on your film/video ref.)
On copying, tracing, converting and prompting.
March 2026
My whole art department is run on tracing paper. Why re-invent the wheel?
- Don Draper in Mad Men
The demo scene has a peculiar view on copyright. It roughly boils down to a system of effort - effort in ideas, effort in craft - where the scene polices itself and punishes sceners that steal outright from other sceners. Theft from the outside world, however, is often taken lightly - especially when it comes to graphics.
Early pixel art on the scene was almost always copied (or, more correctly, plagiarized) from other sources. In particular, fantasy- and science fiction related art was immensely common. Fantasy artists Boris Vallejo and Frank Frazetta, as well as raunchy robot airbrusher Hajime Sorayama, were popular favourites.
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Three different Amiga pixel art interpretations of Frank Frazetta's Death Dealer. All images on this page are clickable and link to non-lossy versions when available.
This pixel art wasn't about originality as much as it was about craft. Scanners and digitizers were far too expensive for a teenager, and the images produced by early consumer models were crude and lackluster. Making an image truly pop with detail and sharpness required hand-pixelling, which is a very involved process. First, there was the copying of a source outline by hand, using a mouse (or joystick, on the C64), and then came aspects such as conveying details in a limited resolution (typically around 320x256 pixels), picking a limited indexed palette (usually 16 or 32 colours), and manually adding dithering and anti-aliasing. It was painstaking work.
The TV painting tutorials by prolific landscape artist Bob Ross hasn't become an online phenomenon because his hundreds of mountainscapes are era-defining sensations (though certainly nice to look at), but because people enjoy watching his creative process and technique, mastered to perfect effortlessness. This notion is echoed in any carefully hand-pixelled work, where the craft itself can be discerned and enjoyed on its own, even if the subject matter is yet another Frazetta copy. Teenage boys will be teenage boys, and their choice of source material all too predictable. The real value of early scene pixels came from the invested labour, not whether they constituted a unique composition or otherwise fresh idea.
Some scene artists were very upfront about copying. Bisley's Horsys is clearly a Simon Bisley copy, and calling a picture Vallejo (NSFW!) is self-explanatory. In the slide show Seven Seas, artist Fairfax clearly lists sources and inspirations in the included scroll text. Others were more quiet about it, but the prevailing sentiment among scene artists at that point in time was that copying was not only allowed, but almost expected.
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Pixel artist Lazur's 256 colour rendition (left) of a photo by Krzysztof Kaczorowski (right). A masterful copy showcasing the sharpness, details and vibrancy achievable with pixel techniques. Of special note is the use of dithering on the matchbox striker and the frontmost man's sweater, creating an almost tactile sense of texture.
Just like in traditional painting, some pixel artists had a natural knack for copying by freehand, whereas others resorted to more fanciful methods. Some used grids, overlaying the original image and then reproducing the same grid on screen to retain proportions. Others traced outlines onto overhead projector sheets, which - thanks to the nature of CRT monitors - were easy to stick to the computer screen and trace under. Today, the use of drawing tablets is much more likely. In the end, however, they all had to fill, shade, dither and anti-alias by hand.
Scene artists soon perfected the pixel art translation, and could accomplish astonishing results with very limited resources. Some started adding their own flair to their copies: a few details here and there, perhaps combining several sources into a new composition. This grind of copying and refining is often a great way to learn, and people in their late teens may be forgiven for wanting to emulate their idols without including the proper credits.
Some time around 1995, scanners had become both cheaper and better, and the Internet opened up a world of new image sources. Combined with cheap, powerful PCs and widespread piracy of Adobe Photoshop, this allowed for new ways of creating digital art. Clever rascals started doing pure scans and passing them off as their own work, but these were still often inferior in quality to the handmade pixel art copies. With time, however, paintovers and tweaked scans could often be passed off as craft to an unsuspecting audience. Around this time, the No Copy? web page was launched, causing disillusionment among many graphics fans who weren't familiar with how common copying in fact was.
At its core the scene is a meritocracy, even if the source of merit may sometimes seem strange to outsiders. Scanning and retouching was (and remains) considered low status and cheating, and many artists and other sceners complained (and complains) loudly when finding someone out. Before 1995, complaints about scanning weren't usually about copied source material, but about the lack of craft: the process still mattered more than originality and imagination.
Around the turn of the millennium, this attitude started to shift. Many sceners were now well into their twenties or thirties, and with maturity came a thirst for original work - both among artists and audience. Some artists, however, had a hard time breaking free from the comfort of copying or, worse, simply converting. The practice continued, but a greater stigma was now attached to it. Hence, Vallejo was discarded in favor of material that could more safely be passed off as one's own. Today's various art sharing websites have made this easier than ever, but that also means plagiarizing other hobbyist artists, which has a different sort of tinge to it than teenagers ripping off big name fantasy painters.
Steve Jobs once said that good artists copy and great artists steal, and attributed the quote to Picasso. As with many good quotes, it's often referred to out of context, and without much thought. The actual source seems to be T. S. Eliot, who wrote that "Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different from that from which it was torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion."
It's easy to misconstrue Jobs' version of the quote as a carte blanche for simply reproducing someone else's work, but what Eliot describes is how artists understand art, and how they incorporate inspiration from other works into their own: He's not suggesting that great poets copy Shakespeare verbatim and pass it off as theirs. In fairness, neither did Jobs: At their height, Apple decidedly improved what they stole - especially the GUI.
The distinction between copying and original work spans a gray area, and when pressed about copying, demo scene artists will usually mumble something about how everyone uses "references". For people not generally involved in painting, this might sound plausible enough, but references aren't the same as making copies of pre-existing art. References are an aid for visually understanding a subject and achieving realism, because nobody can perfectly draw, say, a train from memory alone.
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Hergé was a stickler for realism and often did near-perfect reproductions of references in Tintin - but always in his own distinct "lignie claire" style.
Some will use existing photos, some will walk down to the local train station with a camera, others still will bring a sketchbook and make detailed pencil studies. If striving for accuracy and detail, photo references are invaluable. Sometimes an artist will work from a photo they've taken or commissioned themselves, thus being in control of the subject and composition. Anders Zorn and Pascal Dagnan-Bouveret are two of a plethora of classic painters who used photo references for some of their most recognizable works; Zorn himself was an avid photographer.
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Norman Rockwell demonstrating his use of a Balopticon.
Famous Americana illustrator Norman Rockwell frequently used a Balopticon to project photos onto a canvas and traced the projection. He described this technique with no small amount of self-deprecation: "The Balopticon is an evil, inartistic, habit-forming, lazy and vicious machine. I use one often - and though am thoroughly ashamed of it. I hide it whenever I hear people coming." Yet, his personal style is unmistakable and the photo compositions were his own. Dutch renaissance master Vermeer is suggested to have used a similar technique with a camera obscura.
The key difference between a reference and a copy is that in a copy, the source is a work of art by someone else, and the original artist's subject, style, intent, composition and choices are transferred onto the new work. Perfectly reproducing the Mona Lisa may take time and skill, but the reproduction is a copy, not an original work based on a reference. Trying to pass it off as your own is plagiarism, and this is what most sceners actually mean when they say "copy".
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To the left is a skillful 1994 pixel rendition by Tyshdomos of the caricature to the right, by Sebastian Krüger. The original was no doubt made using at least one reference. The pixel art version, while showing much more than just a shallow understanding of the source material, is still a copy of the style, intent and choices of Krüger. Tyshdomos usually credited the original artist in his images.
As opposed to the more traditional plagiarism on the scene, pre-existing digital images require no tedious manual transfer using a mouse. It's simply a matter of scaling them down to a suitable retro resolution and adding a sprinkle of your own dithering to make it seem more handmade. Suddenly - as with scanning - the grind of the copy is no longer a factor, and the craft is seemingly reduced to covering up the picture's origin.
In the present day, typical retro sceners are in their forties and fifties and have families, established careers and comfortable middle class salaries. The scene is no longer a place for cutthroat teenage social games, but an indulgent hobby and time sink of choice. It's about creating for the sake of creating, for the love of the craft, for the joy of the process. It's about getting better at something that is, ultimately, utterly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It's even pointless as a middle class status marker: few people brag to their neighbours about having coded a texture-mapped cube in a peculiar graphics mode on a long forgotten home computer.
Most pixel artists have long since left the blatant plagiarism behind and are now accomplished, mature creators. They're capable of thinking up original ideas and realizing them in their own, unique styles. As with any hobby, there's still status to be had among the in-group, but the strict pecking order of teenagers has been replaced with a laid-back attitude of friendship, sharing and mutual appreciation of the demomaking craft in general.
Despite this, there are graphics artists who continue to plagiarize, and those who've started to rely on generative AI. Some are upfront about this, too, and clearly label AI generated images as such. Others tell outright lies or are very quiet or avoidant when discussing their process. Often, there's a bit of manually added pixels in these pictures for good measure, like a sprig of parsley on a microwave meal being passed off as a labour of love.
Just like with copying, there's an ongoing discussion about AI on the scene, and there are as many different views as there are sceners. The general consensus seems to be in the camp of honoring the craft, or at the very least practicing transparency about the creative process. This is reflected in the rules of most demo parties, which often explicitly state that the use of generative AI is forbidden - a rule that is seemingly hard to enforce and frequently broken.
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Elements of Green, original pixel art by Prowler. In this timelapse we can follow the process from a pencil sketch (perhaps based on photo references) to finished piece, via both digital painting and traditional pixelling.
Some sceners claim that the end result is all that matters, and that discussing or even disclosing the process is pointless. Another view is that generative AI is just another tool, like a paint program, and that its usage is a natural progression for a culture that has always been about exploring the intersection of digital technology and art.
The scene - like creative communities in general - has always been full of contradictions and paradoxes, in views as well as methods. In some cases, what could be considered plagiarism is the central point of an entire body of work: Batman Group is a demo group that almost exclusively makes Batman-themed demos, showcasing astonishing skill in raw tech as well as aesthetics and storytelling. In other cases, it may be a question of satire or utilizing a culturally powerful pastiche. One of my own favourite demos of all time, Deep - The Psilocybin Mix, makes heavy use of (very apparent) photo montages. These are things both artists and audiences have to live and deal with on a case-to-case basis.
For me personally, generative AI ruins much of the fun. I still enjoy creating pixel art and making little animations and demos. My own creative process remains satisfying as an isolated activity. Alas, obvious AI generated imagery - as well as middle-aged men plagiarizing other, sometimes much younger, hobbyist artists - makes me feel disappointed and empty. It's not as much about effort as it is about the loss of style and personality; soul, if you will. The result is defacement, to echo T. S. Eliot, rather than inspired improvement. Even in more elaborate AI-based works, it's hard to tell where the prompt ends and the pixelling begins.
In the commercial world of late stage capitalism, I'd expect nothing less than cutting corners. For me, the scene is about something else. It's a place of refuge from the constant churn of increased efficiency, and an escape from the sickening void of the online attention economy. It's where we can spend months putting yet another row of moving pixels on the screen to break some old record, because the platform doesn't change and nobody is paying us to be quick about it. It's where I instinctively want to go for things that aren't the result of a few minutes in front of DALL-E. I can get that everywhere else, at any time.
Farting around with Amigas in 2026 means actively choosing to make things harder for the sake of making things harder. Making that choice and still outsourcing the bulk of the craft and creative process is like claiming to be a passionate hobby cook while serving professionally catered dinners and pretending they're your own concoctions.
There's not much to be done about it, because the scene has no governing body or court of appeals - and I dearly hope it stays that way. I just can't wrap my head around the point of using AI in this setting: It feels antithetical to a culture that so adamantly celebrates creativity, technical limitations, extremely specialized skills, and anti-commercial sharing of art and software.
What's interesting is that those most reliant on AI and plagiarism seem to feel the same way. Otherwise, they wouldn't be so secretive about it.
It referenced the Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual, appendix C to create a boot block in assembly. It's a raw sector-mapped image, the build process creates a blank adf, which then writes everything at it's fixed offsets and we go back with another tool to patch the bootblock with the right checksum so the kernel accepts it.
I copied that adf to the A1200 so I can then write it to a real floppy.
INSTALL DF0:
Just type that and your disk is bootable.
What I find mind-boggling is the handwave over the rest. "Loads the network driver" - ok, which one? There's no standard network driver, only a specification for writing drivers (SANA-II). Was it a driver for SLIP/PPP over the serial port, or a PCMCIA Ethernet adaptor, or something else? Was it a copy of a driver someone's already written?
Also, it would be madness to try doing this in a bootblock, or insinuating that the bootblock did it. Demo bootblocks take over the hardware and start using their loading routines, eschewing the main AmigaOS, and that's the implication of saying something was done in the bootblock (you have under 1KB of space so the first thing you need is your own loader).
What's much more mundane and normal is a standard bootblock which returns control to AmigaDOS and lets it run the startup-sequence, whereupon you can use normal files, libraries, devices, including a full suite of other people's networking software, including BOOTP (AmiTCP comes with a client) and TFTP (see Olaf Barthel's tftpclient: https://github.com/obarthel/amiga-sana-ii-tftpclient). But it stopped being the "bootblock" that did it as soon as it started AmigaDOS.