Inside the case somewhere on mine there was a list of all the names of the people who worked on it. Was pretty cool.

You probably can't comment on this, but just to note it, I would be very excited to see the 16 get a similar Pro chassis.

Two questions 1/ will there be a 15 inches version ? ( I’m not getting any younger I like bigger screens ) 2/ software-wise how reliable are the suspend/resume and all the laptop features ? I’ve been using Linux for about 30y and to me this is typically the bits that usually fail. To put it differently, how confident are you that things will work properly out of the box ?

Other than that , I love what you’re doing, please continue.

If you add this then you'll have a new customer for life.

The trackpoint is the only thing that keeps me chained to Thinkpads.

Unfortunately, as is usual for them (and it makes sense; I'm not blaming them), the parts and upgrade kits aren't available for ordering (edit: or pre-ordering) yet, and likely won't be for some time, until the actual laptops are shipping. But yes, this is amazing, and the new pieces are not things I was expecting from them. As soon as it's available, I'll be taking my relatively recent AMD mainboard and putting it in a new chassis+battery+keyboard+speakers+touchpad, possibly skipping the display (I don't care much about a touchscreen, but I do care about display quality, so I'll wait for comparisons to the current 2.8k display). My laptop will, at that point, be almost entirely in a Ship of Theseus situation: I think that only the bezel and some of the expansion cards will be from the original, first-generation laptop I bought from them. That mainboard runs a number of services for me, along with an older display. A second, newer one is waiting for RAM to be a reasonable price (since the RAM it was using is now on my current mainboard); I had planned to use it for some of my research, but maybe I'll end up putting it into this older chassis and have a spare laptop again.

That all this is possible is wonderful, and a credit to them in staying true to their stated ideals.

Does it have such battery life on Linux? The benchmarks, apart from suspend battery life, are for Windows.

I upgraded the screen and speakers, nothing else really needed changing throughout the years.

I was so tired of the bad docker performance on macOS that I went to a framework with Linux. Linux on a laptop (Fedora/Gnome specifically) worked so much better than I expected too.

I'm hopeful I can pre-order this new model as well.

I've just ordered my own 13 pro. I've been waiting for a laptop and this ticks all the boxes. I'd previously ordered a new dell xps laptop and ultimately returned it because the keyboard was busted. I would have kept it if I could have swapped the keyboard for a new one. The use of LPCAMM is also really nice. I've hoped to see this standard start taking flight and I'm happy to grab a product with it included.

Why would you expect otherwise? I fully expect any OEM to place itself at the front of the queue for parts coming from its suppliers. If for some reason they sold parts before the laptops started shipping, I'd fully expect impatient customers would build complete machines from parts ahead of the shipping dates, which would wreak all kinds of havoc on logistics.

Linux battery life is fine and on par with (or possibly better than) Windows these days if you don't do anything silly (I'm sure some distro and DE consume silly amounts of power just because, but it doesn't have to be that way).

Based on reports about Panther Lake, the new process, plus a 13" screen and large-ish battery, I believe the battery life claims.

I think a number of people would have expected these to eventually require a trade-off. Especially coming from pc-building land, where we see new non-backwards-compatible CPU and RAM sockets every 6 or so years.

There's a version of this where Frame.work said, "Design tradeoffs mean the 13 Pro is a new platform that is largely not backwards compatible, but don't worry, the 13 series will still get 5+ years of support and parts" and everyone goes "Aw, well, I guess that's reasonable."

I really want to emphasize that it's looking like Framework is creating a laptop with _better_ backwards compatibility and build-ability than a desktop PC.

All this is to say that this is very very impressive!

An 11th gen CPU/mobo that came out in 2020 can be dropped straight into this new chassis.

Or the newest display be can be dropped into your 2020 laptop/chassis.

A couple of questions:

1. How are the thermals? I've had mixed experiences with my 11th gen FW 13 throttling under load with the fan sounding noisy. It's fine if I'm alone but if I'm at a team gathering, it's noticeably loud.

2. Does the lid open with one hand?

If I want the best battery life and sound possible with Linux, should I switch my preorder to Intel?

And secondly how healthy is framework as a company, and to what extent do you make money from consumers vs sales to big companies?

- Is the Dolby Atmos configuration available for Linux as well as Windows? Or more generally, will the speakers sound as good on Linux as they do on Windows?

- Will we be able to get audio comparison samples between the old and new speakers?

I've wanted to get a Framework for a long time now, but their lack of shipping to Israel (and active prevention of using Freight forwarders) has prevented me.

If they were willing to sell me the 13 Pro, I'd sell my Yoga Pro 7 in a heartbeat to replace with a 13 Pro

then when it comes to repairing broken parts they are on opposite ends of the scale where apple actually go out of their way to make it harder for you to do that and its probably more expensive as well since only apple certified repair shops have access to certain parts

Yes, I am running mostly in dark mode now. Yes, I am using the terminal significantly more often now (80% of the time). But also I have always a browser, always Slack, WhatsApp, Obsidian and more often than not a few other things running on virtual screens.

Just the added battery life made this my daily driver. Yes - I so, so want to buy a framework. Still waiting for the multicolored international keyboards - and also the prices for memory just kill it for me right now. The system I would love to have is about 2k more than a few months ago. I just can't splurge that much right now.

It's unfortunate that they can't sell you something that hasn't been manufactured? That doesn't yet exist?

HN is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to complain about.

I bet they don't publish Linux numbers because it depends on which desktop you use etc.

Also MBP is not really repairable at all.

Peep the margins on “Products” versus “Services” and you will understand what Apple's incentives are and why just selling me hardware isn't it: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2026-q1/FY26_Q1_Consol...

Imagine telling this to someone in 2010 or 2015.

Having something called an "App Store" on my personal laptop I can't remove.. I'd deal with having 4gb of RAM before I lived that reality.

Big enough that they specifically targeted that exact group with this laptop.

I pay $3/month to Apple in exchange for full-quality backups of decades of photos, but I could easily stop doing that, or switch to another provider, if I wanted to. (I don't, because $3/month is extremely fair for what I get.) I've never paid for any other Apple service and likely never will. The OS never, ever nags me about services - compare that to Windows!

Unrelated, but never thought I’d see this kind of sentiment

This is like the really cheap televisions that harvest your data for profit.

How can you compete/compare against vizio if it makes more on your data than on the television?

On the other hand, nrp, since you're likely to be in this thread: if you had pre-orders and/or batched shipments of parts/upgrade kits, I would likely be paying them a deposit today, rather than ordering in a few months. Even if that meant ordering a full upgrade kit with a new display, but getting the upgrade sooner, I'd probably still go for it.

I just had my mainboard die, and I was advised there currently isn't another mainboard in stock that works with my old DDR4 RAM. They don't have any newer DDR5 RAM in stock apparently either, so I was out of luck and ended up buying a Lemur Pro last week.

In my experience, the Framework hardware is great but very flakey and frequently needs replacing.

Support is awful; they'll repeatedly ask you to do things you've already done (and shown proof of), they can take days to get back to you, and are generally unhelpful. They also didn't think to mention to me when I said I needed to buy a new laptop and their parts were all out of stock that they had a new machine coming out in the next week, which is insane to me. I would've been an easy convert. Sometimes I think it's bots doing the support, but if that was the case, they'd reply back faster.

Time will tell whether I'll return back to the ecosystem, but the support experience (and the hardware being poor enough that I frequently need support) is putting me off for now.

I was really sold on the idea of a repairable laptop and the Linux support was excellent. I like the laptop a lot and it happily replaced the old-skool Macbook that had served me so well over the years.

However, I had a screen die on me and that's when I found that their product support was truly appalling (even worse than Apple!) - They took ages to reply and then asking endless irrelevant questions in a very arrogant tone (version of BIOS, operating systems etc) - in the end, I gave up and bought the replacement screen myself.

I'll buy a Thinkpad next time.

In general, coming from a MacBook, I’ve had more quality issues with the framework, but fixing them has always been possible with a little digging. I’ve enjoyed the experience of learning how to take apart and fix my gear, but I’m also the sort of person who darns holes in his socks, so ymmv.

The vibe I got was the quality is really bad, BUT the people who like Framework and believe in it gladly just buy another one.

Not for me though. Within 6 months we’ll see similar specs from other oems at 50 to 70% of the price

(Now you have to validate the next person's justification when it comes up again.)

Personally I also can't stand the exterior design, albeit overall hardware of MBP is good. Guess if I land an old MBP this is what I'd do with it.

Yeah, because they buy a Windows laptop, slap Linux on it, and expect it to work.

OSX sucks even more by this metric; it won't even install!

They eventually got on the EUV train and were the first customer to receive ASML's current state of the art machine which they call high-NA EUV. Intel's 18A process is the first to use this machine as part of the manufacturing process, Panther Lake uses this process so now they're right back to being SOTA.

All the news about them (stock price movements, theories about them going bankrupt, Panther Lake, etc...) for the last 2 years has essentially been people betting on whether or not they can successfully incorporate SOTA ASML machines into their manufacturing.

I'm two years into my fw 13 and think I'll start by upgrading the chassis. I also bought 64GB of DDR5 (it was on sale, if you can imagine such a thing) - The trackpad, speakers and battery are the parts of the machine that I don't really love so will be happy to upgrade those.

I think if I can I'll keep the silver top cover - A bit of a "I had a fw before they were cool" statement

So to get the best battery life you need, for example, your browser to use GPU-accelerated video encoding and decoding.

Linux is something of a second-class citizen for both GPU vendors and browser vendors. So for example if you're using Firefox and an nvidia GPU on Linux? No video encode/decode acceleration for you. The browser will silently switch to CPU decoding.

This translates into worse battery life.

They ship with Ubuntu on it, which would be quite natural choice for such benchmark. Also they do do the standby test on Ubuntu for some reason.

Can't help but suspect there's a reason why Linux numbers are not given. :(

That being said, thinkpads are almost as upgradeable as frameworks. The latest t14 received a better score from ifixit than framework for repairability (first ever to get a 10).

Your FW's Keyboard breaks? Original price you paid, bonus: you can just buy the newest model.

You want to upgrade anything in your MBP? "You know, with how thin, lightweight and fast they are, it's physically impossible to make them user-serviceable"

On the FW? They gave you the one tool you needed when you purchased your laptop.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47822483

Framework is very much a premium brand (where the premium experience is centred on repairability/upgradeability), and don't have the economies of scale Apple do. It's natural that they'd end up being more expensive.

Can you though? Its been a few years since I've been on apple, but being able to get anything but icloud native support in other apps was basically non-existent. Compared to android where it gives you a plethora of choice out of the box.

I'm someone who doesn't want to go through a new laptop every other year. I've got an M1 mac right now. I've owned it for 5 years and could easily see myself getting another 5 years of use out of it. Only problem is, the hard drive is small, I can't upgrade it. It only has 16 GB RAM, which is fine for now, but I can't upgrade it. One of the 2 USB C ports gave out on me. I can't repair it.

If I had a laptop that I could repair and upgrade that also ran Linux? I would absolutely pay $2k for it - as long as the quality is good - because I think I would save money in the long term by making a laptop like that last a long time.

Pulseaudio still does the device juggling etc on most systems even when there's a pipewire backend.

I was looking at benchmark comparisons between my i5-1240P which has 4 performance cores and 8 efficiency cores, and the Ultra 5 325 which has 4 performance cores and 4 low-cache ultra low power efficiency cores.

The 325 is still faster multicore than the 1240P.

FYI, the existing Framework 13 Intel motherboards do support Thunderbolt 4: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/usb-port-definition-matrix-... There's an additional, optional retimer update that's officially Thunderbolt certified, but I haven't bothered with that because my Thunderbolt dock was already working: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/framework-laptop-bios...

Mainly just a trade-off because of because of the bigger battery (but it sounds like they'll sell you the bottom chassis pieces as well).

The idea that they were doing this maliciously never made sense anyway, customers who haven't upgraded in a while might be the least lucrative audience to target.

Yeah, I’m assuming just the one of the various tiers here that’s in the same bucket as MacBooks, and that we’re generally talking devices that are specialty-capable; such as media production or Linux development or gaming or what have you. If you lump the entire “portable screen bigger than nine? inches and with an in-box physical keyboard and pointer controller” market together, you’ll disregard ‘glorified word processors’ that cost a couple hundred bucks (before the RAM underproduction grift) in their own specialty niche. Framework isn’t competing there, right? (I could have missed something..)

Everything around actually a Linux device with a touchscreen sucks.

Like on-screen keyboard will be inconsistent depending on the framework of the app.

comparing to iOS which was built from the ground up around that input method is simply not fair lol.

I wouldn’t think of thermal performance in laptops as “throttling,” think about it in terms of “how much power is this laptop manufacturer deciding to give the chip versus its maximum possible rating and what does that mean for me?”

Performance per watt has a massive diminishing returns curve so you often do NOT want a laptop manufacturer to push the chip to its limit.

Obviously, framework has a limitation that many other similar laptops don’t have by having one fan rather than two, but for these chips in particular I wouldn’t be very concerned as they just don’t consume enough power to create a lot of heat.

I don’t think you need to be concerned with the chassis cooling in the original versus the pro because I think most of the heat dissipation design is on the mainboard. Both versions of the laptop just have a big opening on the bottom for intake then spit out the exhaust out the back. The new chassis is unchanged in that regard.

This concept of “throttling” becomes more of a “design tradeoffs” discussion especially in the world of gaming laptops, which is why I don’t like using the term “throttling.”

Is the thin and light MacBook Pro-sized Zephyrus G14 “throttling” because its RTX 5070ti is being fed less power than a big thick Lenovo Legion? I say no, it’s just being tuned to the intended use case. No, you don’t get the “full power” of the GPU but even the thickest laptops generally don’t get that compared to desktop systems.

By the time these laptops start shipping, 26.04 should be released and testing should be easy. I suspect no major differences from it vs windows.

7.1 includes even more performance improvements for panther lake. [1]

[1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Enabled-Intel-FRED

GNOME supports multitouch gestures, and the GTK4 toolkit is overall very touch-native. It strikes a nice balance between overpadded and touch-accessible, IMO: https://www.gnome.org/

(some of the newer Libadwaita widgets that GNOME is using: https://gnome.pages.gitlab.gnome.org/libadwaita/doc/main/wid... )

> How does it compare to an ipad in terms of fidelity / responsiveness

With Wayland, it's borderline identical.

Their support has been very responsive and helpful every time I've contacted them so I'd be surprised if they wouldn't have helped the GP.

I definitely /wouldn't/ rely on just Windows figures for a machine that's otherwise advertised as "Linux first". If the battery life was the same on both, I'd prominently mention that.

I will attempt to use Asahi as my daily driver once this is officially released.

Why are you lying? That price is to replace the main board.

Give us the price of the Framework's mainboard if you want to compare that.

Hm, I wish they had scores for the X230 and older; I'd like to see how they compare. IMO they're better, if nothing else because you can replace RAM, SSD and battery without unscrewing the entire bottom.

Macbooks have a better design here. They are safe to put on top of sofas and beds. No ventilation holes on the bottom.

So seems basically the same on the low end, with the new part boosting quite a bit higher. Presumably you get more perf per watt on the new CPU, but still.

This advice is a bit more difficult with the current LPCAMM situation. In the US, besides Framework, I was only able to find a 32GB module from Adorama, seemingly a left over new stock Crucial module that I assume must be discontinued in Crucial-branded form, or eBay. But it is far cheaper than Framework’s price ($250) and seemingly still available.

(Interestingly, Adorama’s website says that it’s “trending.”)

You’ll save at least a little bit of pocket change buying your SSD elsewhere at the very least.

Also how's Linux support for either?

I've heard that there's *support* -but is the experience of having a touchscreen on an ubuntu device actually usable and good?

For example some random GUI app you're likely to use on ubuntu is the experience not broken?

I guess Chrome is the first thing that comes to mind.

Come on lol. I have a couple steam decks and both are really clunky.

Most applications are not built using GTK4 nor Qt6 for that matter.

On my steam deck the keyboard never pops up by itself so I have to use a key combination and it feels like I am moving a ghost mouse around the place (rather than proper touch screen support)

I ran gnome on the deck for a while but anyway the on-screen keyboard provided by the gnome sucked so bad that I gave up (sucked as in, it groups all the keys around the center of the screen tightly together and very small)

I also have an M1 iPad Pro. No comparison because those issues simply don’t exist on iOS.

Only benefit of trackpoint nowadays is that you don't move your hand. Otherwise, it's all downsides compared to modern trackpads, especially haptic ones like here. It's less precise, less ergonomic. Nowadays I'd rather move my hand a few centimeters off, than put regular strain on my forearm and struggle being precise with the pointer.

And most thinkpad users, employees of big companies, don't care at all about the trackpoint. I'm pretty sure it's only kept for the thinkpad brand and to keep the vocal minority of us geeks pleased.

Those DRAM chips being the bottleneck that would require hard to build new silicon fabs to increase supply.

They aren't lying. Apple's OEM keyboard repair will charge you for the entire topcase assembly, which can easily crest $500.

Contrast this with Framework or Thinkpad where a keyboard replacement is $20 and 5 minutes of screw work: https://www.ebay.com/itm/286053777254

You’ll get far better battery life for all use cases as well as performance that matches or beats AMD. Also, if you select the X7 you’re getting the best integrated graphics on the market that isn’t made by Apple - basically on par with the M5, and far better than the top option from Framework (HX370) while sipping battery by comparison.

I’m sure AMD will come back soon with a good answer to Panther Lake, but as of right now, it’s not what you want.

Don’t worry about AMD needing your charity, they aren’t going anywhere, they’re a more valuable company than Intel, and they’ll compete in this segment in the future. It’s just not the right buy right now.

Search this thread for the “oh but it’s so expensive, I could just buy a new laptop from any other manufacturer every 3 years and it would be cheaper” posts - those are the normies.

Besides that, it all works about as well as you'd expect it to. You can drag the window around by the tab bar and tap-and-hold to pull up a context menu.

The Core series has GPUs on par with or even slightly bigger than most of the Ryzen AI series (look up benchmarks and articles).

My touchscreen laptop is closing in on being a decade old (i7 6600u) and the worst thing I can say about the experience is that it VSyncs down to 30fps during more taxing animations (just like my iPad does).

“wait so i can have TWO ethernet ports???”

i have been responsible for at least three fw16 sales because I got one first, and this was the biggest thing i heard

But that's bad in my book. I'm happy with 720p on low detail once in a while if it's a laptop. What I remember is Intel GPUS being unable to do even that.

If they caught up with AMD iGPUs, that's great. I don't do desktop replacement laptops, I prefer the ones I can hold in one hand, the dGPU is in my desktop.

> Any gesture functionality is dependent on the software you are running. This includes both, the application (e.g. Firefox) and the desktop environment (e.g. GNOME). The driver can only provide a set of input coordinates to the applications. By default, the system will behave as if you've clicked at the point of a single touch, or mouse-button dragged when you single-finger drag.

I love Linux but no need to embellish the current state imo

I am glad that it is working really well for you though

Taking a quick look, all of the things they list are basically reiterating what I've already said vis-a-vis Wayland:

  You should make sure that you are running a Wayland desktop session [...]

  It is important, that your applications run on Wayland as well.

Yeah no. All of this depends on everything up to the application.

A gtk2 application will have no support for anything. A GTK3 application running on xwayland will have poorer support as well. And anyway most applications just treat the touchscreen as an invisible pointer as it says there.

Just to give an example of some basic thing that doesn’t work reliably: you can’t reliably use a long press gesture. In most apps that will be equivalent to holding the left click (aka does nothing but a long click). On iOS you will get a contextual menu to select/format text or whatever. (You can find a real report of this issue here: https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/s/crLHZhHkuM - “how do I right click using the touchscreen?” from barely 6 months ago)

Your claim that this is an equivalent experience to an iPad is just false.

I’ve been around long enough to remember setting up TouchEgg, the situation is better now but still not equivalent at all.

Anyway originally I wanted to reply to provide balance to your take so casual readers wouldn’t install Linux on their tablets and expect iPadOS. I think that has been sufficiently achieved by this comment chain, readers can choose which side to take :-)

Cheers!