Their email address is under the Contact link in the header :)

You know, accidents happen. If you were to trip over the carpet and that venerable PC falls in the dumpster.

PCI-E has had the same standard since its inception: 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, etc. USB has changed multiple times and has remained confusing for the vast majority of people. What was 3.0 is now not 3.0. Even 3.1 has changed. There is no reason to use this naming convention they currently have but for some reason they stick with it..

Or it could be: 5 Gbps --> USB 3 10 Gbps --> USB 3.1 20 Gbps --> USB 3.2

Higher number = better

- Thunderbolt 3 is a superset of USB 3.1

- USB4 is built on Thunderbolt 3's protocol, implementing a subset of its mandatory features

- Thunderbolt 4 is a strict profile of USB4 (all optional features made mandatory)

- USB4 v2 introduced 80 Gbps signaling

- Thunderbolt 5 is a strict profile of USB4 v2 (again, optional features made mandatory)

I think this practice is rather blatantly what you say. The same thing with HDMI forum folding HDMI 2.0 into HDMI 2.1. They made the new 2.1 features optional, therefore manufacturers were able to call their 2.0 devices 2.1 without actually supporting the 2.1 features. AMD has been recently doing similar things, releasing “new” generation of mobile processors where half of them are just rebrands of the older generation.

Thunderbolt 5 is basically just PCI Express, power delivery, and DisplayPort over the same cable, which for reasons passing understanding is terminated with a USB-C connector.

I think most of those cables will also support USB the protocol.

If you buy Thunderbolt 5 cables: every USB standard is compatible and then some.

And not only the sales people. Windows doesn't report anywhere what your motherboard is capable of, and even if you connect with a device it will not tell you the speed it agreed on.

> I think USB 4 is finally going to the right direction.

USB 4 is actually going into an even worse direction. USB 4 = Thunderbolt 4, except everything is optional. e.g. USB 4 might not even support DP Alt mode. Thunderbolt 4 always will.

I have a USB hub that I bought recently, that has very nice markings on it that are almost like you say :)

I connects via USB4 to the host, and has the following markings on its ports:

- Power in/USB 10Gbps

- USB 10Gbps

- USB 10Gbps

- 8K HDMI

Pretty happy with this one so far.

> and power of up to 240 watt

Except active optical cables. None exist yet that I'm aware of though.

I don't see why it would. Thunderbolt is not a USB standard

It wasn't until last year that I finally purchased my first USB-C device/cables – and after years of solid DisplayPort and Thunderbolt2 connections I absolutely hate USB-C (it's too delicate, physically).

Not until 2023 did I even have a computer newer than 2012, so I missed almost all of USB3's hayday — including nomenclature disputes — but the speeds sure are an improvement!

Out of curiosity, what do you use the higher 20gbps transfer speeds for? Video production?

I use USB-C displays, but they run in DP Alt mode. I don't have many (any?) storage devices that can max out a 20gbps connection, and usually don't exceed 5gbps

... and the bunch of proprietary voltage schemes like Quickcharge.

USB-G 4.6 SuperSpeed Plus, but the cables will still just be used for charging your random electronics and won't even work for that half the time.

The wires count seems to be the number of conductors in the cable (i.e. the number of wires you'll find if you cut a cable in half, including ground and power).

It's true that the actual data is sent over a lower number of diffpairs.

I suspect the shield is not included in the number of wires, since all USB cables have a shield (not sure if usb 3.0 has an extra return ground wire for high speed).

I know not with what technology 2030 will use, but 2040 will use USB sticks and stones.

I believe it’s that MacBooks support Thunderbolt primarily and USB only where absolutely necessary beyond what’s coded into one of the TB specs; and I assume TB doesn’t define 3.2x2x2 as part of any TB spec <=5?

Ha! No chance, my case comes in at a beefy 18kg (purchased circa 2008). Some of the components are slowly starting to give up the ghost. My GPU purchased in 2011-03 died a few weeks ago.

So it's happening, unfortunately I'm not paying for new RAM. So I'm planning a new rig around my existing CMK64GX4M4A2400C14 sticks.

Ah that's where your wrong, see it's called Mjolnir. Only the worthy can move it.

It's totally not because its density is probably close to lead given the concentration of parts in such a tiny space, with some rubber feat that thing ain't going nowhere.

Possibly they stick with it because it's usable (ish) and it was driving everyone up the wall when they'd change it?

This sounds kinda premeditated though...

PCIe also had things like "1.1", "2.1" and "3.1" - that fixed issues and added functionality - but there wasn't the same crossover between "feature sets and spec revisions" and "speeds" we see in USB today.

I got a jCreate5 hub at clearance from an Office Max (rip) and the ports are labeled just like this, no futzing on which port is the PD

> Thunderbolt is not a USB standard

Concerning Thunderbolt 3: USB4 is based on the Thunderbolt 3 protocol [1].

Concerning Thunderbolt 4: "In July 2020 Intel announced Thunderbolt 4 as an implementation of USB4 40 Gbit/s with additional requirements, such as mandatory backward compatibility to Thunderbolt 3 and requirement for smaller notebooks to support being charged over Thunderbolt 4 ports.[14] Publications such as AnandTech described Thunderbolt 4 as "superset of TB3 and USB4" and "able to accept TB4, TB3, USB4, and USB 3/2/1 connections"." [2]

Concerning Thunderbolt 5: Intel considers Thunderbolt 5 as an implementation of USB4 Version 2.0. [3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=USB4&oldid=134742...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=USB4&oldid=134742...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=USB4&oldid=134742...

Even backwards compatibility is optional in USB4. There are USB4 devices (SSDs at least) that will not function when connected to USB 3 ports.

While USB Type C can be broken much more easily by brute force and it is more prone to accidental disconnects than Type A, the Type C connectors are guaranteed to survive much more cycles of plugging/unplugging than Type A connectors.

Type A connectors are typically guaranteed only for around 1000 cycles, with some better connectors rated up to 1500 cycles and some worse connectors rated only for a few hundred cycles.

If you have a device with a Type A connector that you plug and unplug at least once per day, there is a non-negligible risk that the connector will become defective before other components of the device.

On the other hand Type C connectors are guaranteed for at least ten thousand mating cycles, with the best guaranteed for at least twenty thousand cycles, so you should not be able to wear them out through normal usage.

It is true however that you must handle Type C connectors much more delicately than Type A, otherwise you can break them before they are worn out by mating cycles.

During the last few years, high-endurance Type A connectors have also appeared, which can survive a limit between 5 thousand and 20 thousand mating cycles, matching Type C connectors, but most equipment with Type A connectors does not use such more expensive connectors.

I'd guess that most people who use optical Thunderbolt cables are aware that they do not carry power.

Doesn't it run over a USB-C shaped wire? If you're trying to understand things that plug into USB-shaped ports it seems at least worth mentioning.

Thunderbolt 5 and USB4v2 are the same thing now. They both support 80gbps and pcie pass through.

This goes back to another point I've historically made which is that except for storage devices, pretty much nothing supports those speeds. I think there are some USB adapters that don't use alt mode and that can have some advantages on some hosts but usually that's a disadvantage.

USB interface chips are, as far as I've seen, a Cypress/Infineon FX3 or a bit more rare FTDI FT600/FT601. I even talked with the FTDI guys at s conference and they said nobody's asking for higher than 5gbps. Infineon just recently, after I think 10+ years, came out with 10 and 20gbps chips. But only for receive. Seems to be for cameras mainly. So surprisingly yes, video production.

But I want it for other reasons professionally. For example, if you look at the signalhound (which uses the fx3) series of products, they often cap out at 40 Msamples/sec for USB. This is a classic 5gbps limit. To compete with the big boys they need 250 MHz if not more. That's 8 gbps before protocol overhead. It doesn't help that USB is extremely dependent on host compute capability to keep throughput up but assuming your PC is up to the task, 20 gbps could interface some serious data to the real world.

Thanks to the EU those are now forbidden, all phones and laptops should be compatible with USB-PD.

Update: USB-PD is a requirement, but manufacturers are allowed to have their own proprietary charging solution.

…because Staples has replaced Amazon and Temu, which both went bankrupt in 2042, and all usb-c cables are made in Papua New Guinea with only 1/4 of the pins connected to wires. Some things never change.

Maybe walk back and forth a bit dragging your feet on said carpet and open your pc for ‘maintenance’ and accidentally fry some critical component?

That’s not backwards compatibility

Manufacturers of mainstream consumer motherboards never used 1.1, 2.1, etc. for PCI-E though. What is 4.0 on the spec sheet will be 4.0 to the buyer. My old 2016 motherboard has a slew of 3.0 labelled USB ports that are now not 3.0, hence the conundrum. It just doesn't make sense why they changed established naming conventions. Is this something that causes me sleepless nights? Not in the least. But it's still an annoyance for consumers and even advanced users as detailed in that latest Geerling video et al.

To be fair: You should refer to these as Type-C cables, as they carry things that are not USB protocol.

The sole exception should be made for "charge only" cables, which can, and should, be referred to as "wired for USB 2.0". These cables "shouldn't" exist, but I also don't want to buy a $30 cable just to charge my phone.

> Thunderbolt 5 and USB4v2 are the same thing now. They both support 80gbps and pcie pass through.

Not completely true: Thunderbolt 5 demands some capabilities that are optional for USB4v2.

1.1 was very much commonly used in consumer marketing, to the level where there's many instances today of people referring to pcie1.x speeds as "1.1". And I'm pretty sure I've seen 2.1 in consumer marketing contexts. But you're right I didn't know 3.1 existed until I looked it up :p

But USB 3.0 is pretty much the only "speed" that hasn't changed - it always required the extra connectors for 5Gbps from the start - but no more. What about those ports is now not "3.0"?

From a protocol/bandwidth level, it’s essentially the same though. Thunderbolt 5 has some more guarantees for power and display, but the data rate of the two is the same.