I've been a happy Zulip user (and realm admin) for 13 years: it's one of my favorite pieces of software, and I use it daily. My understanding is these changes will be very good for Zulip's long-term stability and success.
(I'm a volunteer member of the new foundation's advisory board.)
It’s okay to make money and change up your career! But this communication is bizarre.
Not trying to be cynical … but announcing on a Friday afternoon is typically the operating mode for when you need to announce something that you do not want to get noticed.
I can only speculate this weeks Bun/Rust news might have played into how this Zulip news is being handled.
To be clear, excited for Tim & team.
it's pretty funny
I cannot quite agree to this. But nonetheless I wish good luck to the Zulip project.
Fun fact: The original blog post announcing the Zulip Open Source project (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10279961) was published on a Friday and I think got more attention because of that choice of date than it would have otherwise.
I do like "team chat" quite a bit better than the original "group chat", which would often result in confusion with WhatsApp and its equivalents.
That seems substantially better than the usual approach (of either an acquihire leading to an immediate shutdown or an acquisition leading to an inevitable "our incredible journey" shutdown later).
There are 220 people from all over the world who have contributed 20 or more commits to Zulip, and thousands more who've contributed code, volunteer translations, ideas, thoughtful questions, and in so many other ways.
Personally, I find remarks like this to be extremely disrespectful to all of those wonderful people and their open-source work.
This idea that devs owe their continued free service to an open source project they released in the past is a crazy one.
The compensation for a senior developer at Anthropic is also certainly much better than a FOSS nonprofit - I'm sure that had nothing to do with his reasoning.
Sad to see yet another longtime open source developer begin working for AI companies that disregard free software licenses for their training and enable the deluge of low quality AI pull requests that waste maintainers' time.
There are many reasons to change job. The pay is always one of them (if you don't work for money, it's not called a job, is it?).
> join Anthropic because of its remarkable commitment to the responsible development of AI for the long-term benefit of humanity.
Obviously, it's better to believe that what Anthropic is doing is good for humanity when you decide to go working for them. But it is at the very least debatable.
Not at the same scale as this, but I've seen friends deliberately choose to get paid less, perhaps much less money, because they wanted to do something. Video games for example, does not pay well, but it may be your passion. Banking pays very well, but it's hard to find any significant emotional involvement.
You can probably argue that's what I did, but it's complicated because I'm hard work. I can't stand debt but I also don't like the feeling of not knowing how to spend all the money. I can say that it's surprisingly hard to get people who are hiring you to accept that (a) the number you put in their mandatory "previous salary" box is correct and yet (b) yes you did understand that they have fixed pay scales and can't possibly match that.
Today marks a major transition for the Zulip open-source project and for Kandra Labs, the company behind it: I’m stepping back from full-time Zulip leadership to join Anthropic, alongside three senior team members, and we’re donating the company to a newly created, independent, nonprofit Zulip Foundation. The new structure provides stability, a renewed commitment to our values, and opportunities for charitable fundraising to support our mission. This blog post explains these changes and why they set Zulip up for greater long-term success.
Zulip is a beloved organized team chat product, used by thousands of companies, open-source projects, and research communities. Zulip is known for its unique topic-based threading model, which makes it easy to have many conversations in parallel without chaos, interruptions, or stress. April’s Zulip 12.0 release included almost 5,500 commits contributed by 160 people from all around the world.
The Zulip Foundation will be the formal steward of the Zulip project, with a mission of developing the best possible team chat experience, with a particular focus on public-interest organizations and communities.
Kandra Labs, the company that has stewarded Zulip for the last decade, will now be fully and independently owned by the Zulip Foundation, with no other stockholders or debt obligations. Kandra Labs will continue hosting, supporting, and improving Zulip for use across all industries, offering an excellent experience for business customers. We’re committed to being a trustworthy, transparent vendor for our customers, and anticipate no major changes in how we conduct business.
I’m excited that this new structure — similar to governance structures for Mozilla, Signal, and Wikipedia — formalizes our longtime commitment to Zulip’s sustainability and independence.
The foundation’s initial board of directors will be:
We also have five incredible people signed on to share their expertise as members of an advisory board:
I’m incredibly grateful to everyone who has volunteered to help launch the Zulip Foundation. We’re looking to recruit one additional director, and to fill out a larger advisory board. If you or someone you know may be a good fit, please reach out to foundation-jobs@zulip.com to let us know!
If you’d like to follow along, please sign up for occasional email updates from the Zulip Foundation.
Zulip’s operations will continue without interruption, including Zulip Cloud; the Mobile Push Notifications Service and support contracts for self-hosted organizations; our Google Summer of Code mentorship program, with 11 participants this summer; and our sponsorships for the thousands of open-source projects and other public-interest organizations that Zulip Cloud hosts free of charge.
Kim Vandiver, an experienced leader and operator, has joined Kandra Labs as Interim President to help ensure a smooth transition. This is not the first time Kim has raised her hand to help a values-focused organization in a time of change: at VaccinateCA, a rapidly evolving COVID-era effort to spread information about vaccines, Kim jumped in to revamp a variety of processes — first as a volunteer, and then as the Director of Operations. I’m extremely grateful to have her here to manage operations and help run a global search for the best possible leadership for Zulip going forward.
Operationally, both Zulip Cloud and the self-hosted experience are the most stable that they have ever been. We’ve always had a relentless focus on eliminating bugs and workflow warts, and have made an especially strong push on this in the past year. I expect there will be a reduction in development velocity over the next quarter as the organization adapts to the leadership change, but it will feel like a small blip when we look back.
There are two main reasons why I’m excited about this change: it allows us to make a permanent, public commitment to the values we’ve long operated by, and it offers a new avenue for Zulip to raise funds without ceding control.
Kandra Labs has always been a mission- and values-focused company. We have a long-running sponsorship program, and have always prioritized features primarily useful for communities alongside features for business users. Kandra Labs has been public about its values for years — including our commitments to protecting customer data privacy, and to keeping our focus on the product, not on whatever’s commercially fashionable. The Zulip Foundation formalizes and makes permanent our values beyond my tenure as CEO.
It’s hard these days to feel confident that a company whose product you love won’t yield to commercial pressure and start selling your data, putting in ads, or otherwise violating your trust. It’s been a challenge to convincingly make the case that this won’t happen to Zulip, especially to folks who might not have time to investigate deeply. The Zulip Foundation, which has the goal of serving the public good, makes this so much easier to communicate clearly.
The new foundation also puts Zulip in a much stronger fundraising position. Over the years, I’ve been reluctant to accept external funding for Zulip, even from angel investors I trust, because fiduciary duties to those investors could eventually generate pressure for us to compromise our values. As a result, the company’s funding has been driven by how much I’m able to personally invest in Zulip above and beyond its subscription revenue.
With the foundation in place, we’ll be able to apply for grants we were previously ineligible for, and receive tax-deductible donations from individual donors. The foundation can also run fundraising campaigns that would not have felt appropriate for an open-source project with a privately owned company behind it.
I’m stepping back from Zulip to join Anthropic because of its remarkable commitment to the responsible development of AI for the long-term benefit of humanity. Three additional members of Zulip’s longtime leadership team are also joining me at Anthropic: Alya Abbott, Greg Price, and Alex Vandiver.
My career choices have always been motivated by a sense of responsibility to use my talents for the public benefit. This motivation is what led me to found Zulip and lead it for a decade with our unusual values-focused approach. I remain committed to Zulip and its mission, and had imagined spending the rest of my career working on it. So what changed?
Over the last few months, I’ve been reflecting deeply on the myriad ways in which AI is changing the world, and how it might change the world in the future. And I came to the conclusion that it’s vitally important that we navigate this strange adolescence of technology well, and that I should contribute to this cause more directly than I ever could as the CEO of Kandra Labs.
My non-negotiable requirement for moving on from Zulip has always been ensuring that Zulip can continue its mission effectively without me. I’m deeply grateful to be in a position to do exactly that by creating the nonprofit Zulip Foundation.
All Kandra Labs team members who are not joining Anthropic will continue working on Zulip. These 12 amazing people have an average of over 4 years of professional experience working on Zulip, and almost 25,000 Zulip commits between them. They have shipped major improvements end-to-end across every facet of the product, and I have full confidence in their ability to move the project forward.
Ultimately, Zulip’s strength is its culture and incredibly disciplined development process. The team has demonstrated the ability to operate and develop Zulip without me during the six months of my parental leave (spread across my three kids). I’ve never shared this so publicly before, but in 2018 I developed a chronic illness that was initially highly debilitating, and continued to impact my work until last year. Yet our wonderful team and community made steady progress even through the worst of it.
Over the coming months, the team will be hiring to fill roles opened by the departures. If you or someone you know may be interested in a leadership or infrastructure role, learn more and reach out!
I personally expect to remain involved with Zulip as a contributor, providing context, history, reviews, and advice as time permits.
While I’m excited for Zulip’s future, I know folks will have lots of questions about what it all means. Our team would love to answer them as transparently as we can. We invite everyone to join us for a live chat Q&A in the Zulip development community on Tuesday, May 19 at 4 PM UTC (9 AM US Pacific / 12 PM US Eastern / 9:30 PM IST).
If you have any questions or concerns as a Zulip customer, please contact support@zulip.com. As always, all are welcome to drop by the Zulip development community — the #general channel is a great place to ask about this transition.