Rieko Kodama – Director / Designer
Toru Yoshida – Director, Story Plan, Graphic Designer
Kazuyoshi Tsugawa – Battle Planner, Graphic Designer
Akinori Nishiyama – Designer, Scriptwriter

—Please share your feelings with us now that the development of PSIV is nearly complete.

Kodama: There was a lot of chatter around the office that we weren’t going to finish by the end of the year (laughs), but we somehow just made it.

Everything has calmed down now, mostly. The instruction booklet is finished too. It was a really long development. Now that we can finally relax, my brain is kind of a mush. (laughs) At this point a lot of the pressure is off our shoulders, but as we now move toward the actual release date, there’s a new kind of stress. I saw the commercial for PSIV and was like, “is this really ok…?” (laughs)

Yoshida: For me, at the halfway point, a lot of the visual cutscene work still remained to be completed. I really thought it might never end. I actually started to think of an escape plan to bail out. (laughs) But now that we’ve safely crossed the finish line, I’m glad I didn’t. All that remains now is the release date… though I am a little worried about all the other big titles coming out around the same time. To be honest I’m just hoping it will sell ok. But yeah, either way I’m really relieved right now.

Nishiyama: The large size of the ROM made it harder.

Tsugawa: (laughs) It was a lot to handle, but I don’t think it made things harder, exactly.

Kodama: The hardest period was definitely transitioning the development from a 16Mbit cart to a 24Mbit. We were very worried whether Sega would approve the change. However, once they gave the go-sign, the pace got a lot more aggressive. (laughs) By the end, we weren’t even sure that 24Mbit was going to be enough! (laughs) But we made the game we really wanted to make, and I’m very thankful for that.

—What was it like being team leader for PSIV?

Kodama: Well, I’m the “team leader”, but it’s not really a big deal. I continued to work on graphics for PSIV, just as I had before. But I also coordinated with the sound team, the graphics designers, and the programmers.

Top to bottom: Rieko Kodama (director), Yoshiaki Endo (main programmer), Daisuke Yamamoto (field / event programmer), and Kazuyoshi Tsugawa (graphic designer).

—How did the PSIV development get started?

Yoshida: It was some really good timing: right as we were thinking about doing another Phantasy Star, Sega asked if we would make another. After that I went around the office asking people if they’d like to work together on it, and so the development officially got underway.

Kodama: That’s also partly why this development was a lot of fun, I think: we (the developers) started the project on our own initiative, and many people on the team had worked on PSII and were able to address the shortcomings and unfinished ideas they had from that game in PSIV.

—How is PSIV connected to the other games in the series?

Yoshida: It’s a direct continuation of the first two games. PSIII was like a collection of side-stories, but with PSIV, we’re returning to the main storyline, with PSI and PSII forming the historical backdrop. I wanted to make one more game where you get to explore the whole solar system and travel from planet to planet.

When our team made PSII, we were stretched pretty thin, and we couldn’t include all that we had imagined. We felt that leaving the story at PSII, therefore, would have been a real waste, and that’s how the idea for PSIV got started.

Also, PSII’s battle animation system still stands out today, I think. It allowed for really great visual presentation, and again, we thought it would be a huge waste to not revisit it. But PSII and PSIII also had a lot of flaws, and we wanted to fix all that and make a game which players would consider the definitive Phantasy Star. So in that sense, we also saw PSIV as a sort of remake of the best elements of the series.

Toru Yoshida, like most of the PSIV devs, worked in a variety of roles: co-director, graphic designer, and story writer.

—What were some of the things you wanted to improve or fix?

Yoshida: In our design plans, we really wanted to include the vehicle battles that we had been unable to do in PSII.

Kodama: When we began the PSIV development, I said we have to do vehicle battles this time! I really just wanted to make moving around the map more fun. It’s super convenient for people who want to get to the next place, and if you’d rather gain experience, you can always just walk. The vehicle designs themselves may make you shed a tear of nostalgia too. (laughs)

Yoshida: With regard to characters, the first game had 4 player characters, while PSII had 8, but when we looked back at those characters, it appeared to use that their characterization and psychology was rather shallow. That was something we wanted to change if we made another Phantasy Star, to give the characters more inner depth.

In our first staff meetings for PSIV, we already had four of the characters down: Chaz, Rune, Rika, and Wren. They were the “successor” characters to the previous protagonists. Chaz, of course, we envisioned as a descendant of Alis. Rika was like a remake of Nei, Rune tied back to Noah (Lutz), and Wren was like Siren from PSIII.

It wasn’t until we had these four characters that we began working on the story in earnest. We wanted, of course, to feature the unique and quirky aspects of Dezolian and Motavian culture, so we then made Raja and Gryz. They were also partly our attempts to remedy some of the complaints from PSII, you could say.

Also, I never really understood Nei’s background from PSII, so we thought a lot about her when developing PSIV. Nei ages 1 year in 1 month, right? If that’s the case, then she would reach age 12 in one year, and before long she’d be unable to co-exist with humans. That’s why when I made Rika, in order to allow her to live with humans, I added the fact that when she reaches the age of 20, her development returns to a normal human pace. That kind of stuff—adjustments that make the world of Phantasy Star more cohesive and whole—were what I wanted to do with PSIV.

Concept illustration for Rika, by designer Toru Yoshida.

—What can you tell us about the story of PSIV?

Yoshida: One primary goal for the development was to bring a conclusion to the saga and put everything in order. Naturally we want it to be fun for new players, but we also want the fans who played PSI through PSIII to experience that feeling of revelation— “ah, so that’s what that was all about!”

Kodama: This time, we knew we didn’t want to have a dark ending like PSII and PSIII. The previous games ended in a way that left you with a lot to think about, which contributed to the somewhat dark, heavy atmosphere. That’s why this time we aimed for a traditional “happy end.” Everyone on the staff right now grew up with anime, you see, so maybe there’s a bit of influence from that.

—Will there ever be 3D dungeons again in Phantasy Star?

Kodama: Whenever you release new hardware or equipment, users are going to have high expectations for it. For example, with the Sega Master System, the 3D dungeons in Phantasy Star probably grabbed a lot of attention for that reason. I know we’ve had a lot of requests to add the 3D dungeons back in for the Megadrive Phantasy Star games. However, players won’t be satisfied with SMS-era technology for the 3D dungeons in a Megadrive game, and it doesn’t make sense with our design plans either: everything has to be rotatable, floors, ceilings, etc, and that would take up far too much memory.

Anyway, developments always have to be try push beyond what players expect. For that reason, we abandoned the idea of 3D for PSIV. The first games that were developed for the Megadrive, like Alex Kidd and Altered Beast, graphically speaking it’s kind of surprising now to look back and see how many flaws they have, but no one was used to developing for the Megadrive then. To be honest, it wasn’t until Phantasy Star II that we really became competent with the Megadrive’s capabilities—which is why, in that sense, that game had a very high level of technical polish.

—Can you tell us any behind-the-scenes stories or background about the making of PSIV?

Yoshida: The Motavians have been a part of Phantasy Star since the first game… you know the Jawas from Star Wars? The Motavians were inspired by them. They weren’t depicted very clearly in the previous games, but we’ve taken some of their traits, like their propensity to collect garbage from PSII, and their love of creating things, and added a bit more background to flesh them out.

The cutscenes for Phantasy Star IV were meant to evoke manga panels. The large volume of drawings required apparently pushed artist Toru Yoshida to the edge.

Now we know they live communally, without a designated leader. Owing to their animal nature, they herd together. They’re more knowledgeable of technological things than the Parmians, but they don’t necessarily understand all of it. There’s other details too, but that’s the gist of it.

Kodama: For the bounty sidequests, the person who designed them loves Sherlock Holmes, and the titles he gave them are meant to evoke those stories.

—Which parts of Phantasy Star IV that you worked on are you most proud of?

Nishiyama: I did the dialogue, so probably the funny parts there? I hope players enjoy the frivolous parts that aren’t connected to the story in any way. (laughs)

Kodama: As team leader I was involved in most aspects of the development, but the “multi-window” system for cutscenes was the first thing I worked on, and I really want players to see that. Yoshida created an unbelievable amount of images for it, and it’s sure to delight players.

Yoshida: That was something we designed specifically for Phantasy Star IV. We wanted it feel more like a manga layout, rather than the typical single-screen anime presentation you see in most games.

Tsugawa: For my part, it would be the flashy fight scenes, and the nose-bleedingly hard bosses.

—Are they really that hard?

Tsugawa: They’re tough. Especially for people who have grown too comfortable with easy games—they might actually get a nose bleed for real. (laughs) There’s lots of bosses who you have to use your head to defeat.

—Right, but if you just level up, you’ll be ok…?

Tsugawa: Even if you raise your levels, if you just mindlessly press “Attack” you still won’t win. It will be much quicker if you think strategically instead of just grinding levels.

—Why didn’t you include an auto-battle option for PSIV?

Kodama: It was basically the preference of the programmer who created the system, and he didn’t like auto-battles that much. They make for an experience that is too disconnected. We would rather have players see the battles as “real fights”, and be more engaged with using their techniques and abilities.

Rieko Kodama holds forth on the finer points of RPG design.

Rieko Kodama – 1993 Developer Commentary

from the “New Wave of RPGs” feature of Famicom Tsuushin

The first thing we worked on for PSIV was getting the details of the world and setting solidified. Take a single candle, for instance: we asked ourselves, would that be something you’d find in this world? Is there electricity? Do the windows have curtains, drapes, shades…? Just a lot of little details like that. For the characters, we figured out most of their personalities as we drew them. With each detail and bit of background we added to the characters, the story itself also expanded. The world of Phantasy Star IV came into view for us very incrementally.

During the game, however, those backstory elements aren’t made explicit. Much of it is kept secret on purpose, which is an experience we want players to have. The Phantasy Star series takes place on a different world, in a different age, so we want players to be asking “I wonder what that is…?” while they play. When they first see an Android, we want them to ask, “what in the world is this…?!” That’s also why we titled this game “Phantasy Star: End of the Millennium” instead of “Phantasy Star IV”.

I think recent RPGs have become too user-friendly. For example, if you buy a Battle Axe in a store, the game will plainly tell you that it gives “+20 power”. But I don’t like everything to be displayed in numbers like that. In order to preserve the integrity and illusion of the world we’ve so carefully built, I’d rather players just get an impression of the weapon being stronger because it is made of stronger material. We do display hit points, though, somewhat to my chagrin.

Honestly, if I could have my way, I wouldn’t use any human language for the monster names, or names of towns and places. I mean, Phantasy Star is the story of a completely different world, right? But of course, for players it won’t work to have a game that’s nothing but nonsensical, unintelligible words.

I think the innovation of the Phantasy Star games has mainly been in terms of graphics and visual presentation. However, when you consider that RPGs evolved from table-top gaming, and that characters exist as something in the players’ imaginations, then the perspective that you shouldn’t display too much overtly is also correct. For my part, though, I think the main draw of video games is their overt use of sound and visuals, and that’s what we have pursued in the Phantasy Star series.

Akinori Nishiyama (designer, script), Rieko Kodama (director / designer) Kazuyoshi Tsugawa (battle / graphic designer).

Phantasy Star IV - 1993 Developer Interview

originally featured in The World of Phantasy Star book

—I understand the development of PSIV went very smoothly. That 24-megabit capacity is quite impressive!

Hayashida: This time, we used a massive amount of memory for the graphics, including cinematic, almost animation-style visual effects. But yeah, the development progressed smoothly. Most importantly, we created a fully illustrated planning document which we titled "Phantasy Star IV Official Guidebook," and that allowed us to be very focused. We've had a lot of fun making this game. From the side stories right down to the smallest details, it was a joy to work on.

—The characters in IV are exceptionally charming. Nei was also a huge fan favorite in II. How do you go about creating characters with that kind of appeal?

Kodama: I only handle the visual side of things, but it's basically a collaborative effort. A planner brings in the initial concepts, and then the character designers flesh them out into full illustrations. Often a planner has a certain image in their head, but once the designer gives it visual form, the character's personality expands based on the atmosphere of that drawing. So they evolve through that kind of synergy.

Take Lutz from Phantasy Star, for instance. I drew him the way I saw him, but the planner, Chieko Aoki, saw him as a woman. So we decided to bring him back in II, and we've carried that thread all the way through to IV. Toru Yoshida handled the character settings and designs this time, but it feels like the characters existed first, and the story was built around them.

—Phantasy Star is known for its heavy, tragic drama, with Nei's story in II being the classic example. Fans find that heartbreak irresistible, but will IV have its share of sad moments as well?

Kodama: Yes, it will. But we’re definitely aiming for a happier ending this time. We really wanted to avoid the kind of dark conclusions we had in II and III. In the previous games, you always walked away feeling like you had to worry about what came next... there was this lingering gloom. This time, we wanted to leave players on a high note.

Nei was a big part of PSII's enduring appeal. Her backstory was explored in the Nei's Adventure text game, and she also featured briefly in this obscure puzzle slider available on the Sega Modem service. The image was drawn by Toru Yoshida himself.

—Is there anything that influenced IV?

Kodama: Well, all the current development staff grew up on anime, so there might those influences in there somewhere.

—Considering how III was received, what made the team decide to move forward with Phantasy Star IV?

Yoshida: III was made by a different team than the one that developed I and II. That's why it naturally wound up feeling like a side story. When our team made II, we really felt our shortcomings. We couldn't execute everything exactly as we envisioned, so it felt like we left a lot of things undone. It seemed like a total waste to just walk away from the foundation we'd built with I and II, so the project for IV was born out of a desire to do it justice.

Plus, I still don't think anything has topped the visual storytelling of II's animated cutscenes. That presentation style was incredibly effective, and we felt it would be a shame to discard it rather than build on it. Granted, both II and III had plenty of flaws, so our goal was to iron out those shortcomings and deliver the definitive Phantasy Star experience. We approached the planning with the mindset that we were creating a spiritual remake of the entire series.

—So how did the PSIV development proceed?

Yoshida: When it came to the actual planning, I had a few specific goals in mind, like wanting to feature the kind of vehicle combat we couldn't pull off in Phantasy Star II. While mulling those ideas over, I started thinking about the cast. Even though Phantasy Star II featured eight companions compared to the original game's four, I felt like we never quite got to see who they were on the inside. So for this game, I wanted to focus on their inner lives and build a cast with real depth. In fact, by our very first staff meeting for Phantasy Star IV, I already had the core four members pictured in my head: Chaz, Rika, Wren, and Rune.

I envisioned them as direct spiritual successors to the legacy characters. Chaz was a descendant of Alis by way of Rolf; Rika was a reimagining of Nei; Wren was modeled after Siren from Phantasy Star III; and Rune was meant to succeed Lutz. The story was entirely built around these four once they were locked in. I also wanted to draw out the unique charm of races like the Dezolians and Motavians, which is why I created Raja and Gryz--again, probably stemming from a desire to fix what felt unsatisfying in Phantasy Star II.

Wren being modeled on Siren was one of the few connections between PSIII and PSIV, though the personality of the characters was markedly different.

Nei's background in Phantasy Star II was always a bit vague, which heavily influenced how I approached Rika in Phantasy Star IV. I figured a being like Nei couldn't just be a simple human hybrid. But if you remember, Nei aged a full year every single month. At that rate, she would age twelve years in a calendar year, making it impossible to truly coexist with humans long-term. To solve that for Rika, I established that once her physical growth reached the equivalent of a twenty-year-old human, her aging process would normalize. That's the kind of logic we used; we really wanted this game to serve as a complete, cohesive summation of the series.

—Kodama, your official title on Phantasy Star IV is Team Leader. What exactly does that role entail?

Kodama: It sounds impressive, but it's really nothing too grandiose. Naturally, I'm still handling a lot of the pixel art and graphics just like before. But on top of my design duties, I'm also coordinating between the sound team, the artists, and the programmers. It's probably easiest to think of it as a director or producer role, acting as the central hub to keep everyone aligned.

—Speaking with the staff today, I noticed how incredibly upbeat everyone is. You're right on the verge of the final master submission, yet no one seems burned out. What's the secret behind that high morale?

Kodama: A big part of it is that this project was something the development team explicitly stepped up and fought to make. Plus, because we're resolving so many lingering regrets from Phantasy Star II, everyone is genuinely having fun bringing these ideas to life.

—I understand you named the PSIV development planning materials the "Official Guidebook"...?

Kodama: Yes, this is it here. The "Phantasy Star IV Official Guidebook" volume 1 and 2, along with a dedicated character volume. Everyone on the team filled them with sketches and illustrations so it was a very readable, easy to understand planning document.

The "PSIV Official Guidebook" mentioned above, dated 9/92.

—Looking back at the transition from the Master System to the Mega Drive, it took a while for the library to really pick up steam. If we see another shift from the Mega Drive to next-generation hardware, what kind of development hurdles do you think you'll face?

Hayashida: With any new hardware, the first six months are incredibly slow going. That's just the baseline time it takes for programmers, graphic designers, and the rest of the team to get a feel for the new architecture. Because of that learning curve, even simple ports or multi-platform projects take a massive amount of time early on.

Kodama: Developing for higher-end machines also means wrestling with elevated user expectations. For instance, the 3D dungeons in the original Phantasy Star on the Master System made a huge splash, and we've received countless requests to bring them back for the Mega Drive entries. But if we were to implement 3D on the Mega Drive, players wouldn't settle for the same presentation we used years ago. To make it pass muster today, we would have needed to implement full environmental rotation: spinning floors, ceilings, and all. Ultimately, that would have devoured far too much memory, so the pitch fell through. We have to constantly outpace what the audience expects, which is why we ultimately dropped 3D for Phantasy Star IV.

When I look back at early Mega Drive titles like Altered Beast or Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle, I see a lot of unoptimized, wasteful design elements that surprise me now. But that's just what happens when a team is still acclimating to a new system. It wasn't until Phantasy Star II that we truly got used to the Mega Drive's capabilities, which is why that game stands out for its high level of technical polish. If we move to next-gen hardware, we'll face that same challenge of needing to deliver content that blows past user expectations. While having access to more colors and memory is a massive advantage for developers, navigating that initial learning curve is always going to take time.

—Hearing you all talk, it really hits me: you wanted to leave Phantasy Star IV on the Mega Drive as a true spiritual successor to Phantasy Star II. And at the same time, you wanted to finally codify the entire lore and world-building of the franchise (which had been a bit scattered until now) into an internal bible that Sega's own creators could stand behind. That's the impression I'm walking away with today.

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