You can still allow people to hide it, but then by default every non-business phone should block calls with hidden numbers.
That's already an issue with most cell phones. Making this apply to prepaid phones is even worse.
Is there really not a way to submit an express FCC comment that avoids all my personal info being publicly published to the web? Yeesh.
Phone numbers were designed with the idea that they need to be easily memorizable in your head but I don't think that's really needed today.
At any moment I should be able to discard my contact and redistribute it on my own.
The idea that old numbers get recycled is completely ridiculous as well.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/05/26/2026-10...
I think that gets you most of the way to a link that somebody on HN dropped a few days ago:
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express
It requires the docket-id to complete:
Docket No: 17-59
You can double check that Docket Number here: https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-seeks-comment-enhanced-know...
Our democracy in action.
This means the parents of adult scammers too. Every scammer has a mother and father who are failing them. If they were doing their jobs, this wouldn't be happening.
In the era of Target specialized AI that can mimic voices, writing styles, communication is now fundamentally compromised without some sort of actual reform
We're making our law enforcement's job marginally easier, by making the criminals' job infinitely easier by creating millions of juicy PII honeypots.
No, you don't need my phone #, real name, captcha.. if you think you do, realign your incentives, and rethink what else can be used for your real need instead.
- It is kind of expensive,
- You are forced to provide it to many official institutions,
- It is the default or mandatory insecure 2FA for many institutions,
- It always get leaked somewhere and is one of the most common/reliable identifier.
We still have them around governments and telcos love it and old people and scammers are its last users.
>AI slop art right at the start
Instant close
If your carrier accepts a spoofed call they're already violating FCC recommendations.
I find that abusive on its own but let’s not forget about the fact that now you have victims of domestic violence being forced to answer hidden numbers in case it’s welfare, or the cops, or their abusive spouse.
Like that is Carr's FCC in a nutshell - he wants to control speech by controlling the airwaves. That is a raw fact in his behavior. But when the news stations say the thing they want them to say, what happens next other than slightly extending the definitions of public good to the internet and then restricting speech?
https://www.pcmag.com/news/apple-expands-this-location-focus...
And if you think your name and address are private, then I have some bad news for you.
Publication is probably a bit much as a default and chills speech a bit, but it’s also important that the federal register can remain public with all public comment on the web. These are official comments on the record.
Sure, not much money to be had by fighting that fight but basically any PAC should have the means to do this and by claiming money is at stake and not people's actual safety you do have a better chance at this not being dismissed because of how your justice system /is/.
For example, why isn't it the default that when a telemarketer calls me it's not a video call? And why can't I preview their video stream prior to answering?
I get its "impossible" to make everyone change, but i do think we should push forwards...
Patrick: Yes, so "Know Your Customer" (KYC) and "Anti-Money Laundering" (AML)
are mandatory elements of the international compliance regime that have been
in place in the United States since the early 1980s. Over time, this regime
spread globally, largely fueled by the U.S. leveraging the dollar as a tool
of foreign policy—a point where I find myself agreeing with critiques from
the crypto community. Their complaints about this are largely accurate. You
can see this clearly in the documents as these laws were passed and as
supranational bodies increasingly tightened regulations on banking secrecy
havens.
https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/true-crime-ba...https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/kyc-and-aml-beyond-th...
Instead of the government actually trying to catch money laundering, they just make 3rd parties like banks and payment processors judge, jury, executioner. Effectively giving them the power to decide who can do business. And if they decide you can’t, you have no recourse. If the government didn’t give this power to private companies, they would have to prove in court that you are doing something unsavory. And to people saying KYC/AML works, sure. HSBC was laundering billions and these guys know how to get around KYC. You’re just screwing over common people at this point and giving banks and financial institutions power to skirt due process.
don't see the harm in this? isn't this already the case for 99.9% of phoneline havers already?
Most major telcos worldwide outside the US have strict KYC rules, this is not a battle you are going to win, because there are very few legitimate reasons in support.
https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/nonprofit-indicted-ba...
https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/splc-financia...
https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/defendant-cen...
Ever since 2020, I've seen more stores that won't take cash, and refuse to go there on principle even if I was going to pay with card anyway.
One could argue that it's a failure of law enforcement or telcos or regulators to do enough to prevent fraud and maaaaybe bring a class action or something, but that's a massive stretch.
This seems so clear to me; KYC is an end run around the constitution.
But how do we stop it? If we legislate "no KYC" then what is my recourse when an imposter empties my accounts? You'd want it to be at least allowed.
But if we allow industry to require KYC "we will only deposit your pay to a verified bank account" then you may end up with de facto KYC if not de jure. But if you tell businesses they may not require it, it enables other kinds of fraud.
Legislation does not constrain people who will to do evil.
I can think of a half dozen ways that can get abused. Remember that in the states policing is decentralized. There is always some department somewhere willing to abuse their power. Look at how flock has been used to stalk partners, or how geofencing was used to sweep up everyone in the area of a protest, or how stingray is used to listen to all calls in an area. This is opening up avenues of abuse for almost no benefit.
It's unclear to me how I'd be impacted by these new rules, but I don't believe there's any requirement to provide PII to get a VOIP number.
Suggest phone scams are a $26 B per year industry.
More concretely, famous for supplying bulk data to the surveillance industry for a nominal fee. That is ostensibly the goals behind this development - all of these companies demanding phone numbers for "verification" and snake oil "2FA" want to reliably dox 100% of their users rather than just 80%.
Neither of these are true anymore.
Also, the tone is set from the top.
Do you think the current admin cares about actually tackling fraud and abuse?
Seems that we can’t both get what we want.
A potential solution is that you get your anonymous phone line but my phone provider simply refuses to let you call me with it.
Of course then we need to extend the same principle to data and to IP traffic originating from your device. If you don’t want to be traceable it seems reasonable that services should have the right to refuse to handle IP traffic you generate.
Would such a half-baked level of network access suit your needs?
My guess is that there's some requirement that if it's a working number, it must be able to dial emergency services and that's the loophole that's being exploited. So the FCC's answer is if all numbers must work, push the check directly on the subscriber.
Use Monero as much as possible. If enough people adopted it, there's absolutely nothing they could do to stop it short of turning off the internet entirely. Even China, with the strictest internet controls in the world, hasn't managed to stop people paying for banned goods and services in crypto there.
Back in the days of rotary phones, not only did the phone providers have your name, they even listed it, your home address, and your phone number in the white pages of the phone book, and everyone in town had a copy of it. Before the rise of microcomputers which enabled data tracking and robocalls, which in turn gave rise to demand for privacy from spam, having that information out in public wasn't a problem except for edge cases like domestic abuse victims or people in a witness protection program. The 99.9%, though, are still getting tracked no matter what, and I sometimes wonder if we've sacrificed the convenience and confidence of the phone-book age for an illusion of privacy that relies on anxiety.
What they'll do, what they always do, what you can see them actively doing (albeit on other policy axis) even at the local government level, is simply scrutinize these people for other laws they've broken or rules they've run afoul of and then enforce the shit out of those.
We have a real problem with people in government buying into the idea that it's basically a private company set up for the benefit of one man in particular.
The problem is, with a phone number anyone can. Phone numbers need to operate more like a shared secret.
I was getting an oil change the other day and the guy asked me for my phone number...
I said why? Do you need to call me?
He said, no we just need it to put in the system and it won't let me proceed without one.
I said ok well here is a fake number since you don't need to contact me.
He was visibily frustrated with me, yet inputed the fake number and it allowed him to proceed.
My point with sharing this story is it seems like we have forgotten as a society what the purpose of the phone number is. Your supposed share it when you want to be able to communicate that's it.
It's turned into a required chokepoint to do anything.
To your point about emergency services—while it's true that any unactivated phone must be allowed to dial 911, that rule only opens a one-way path to emergency dispatch. It doesn't give a device the ability to place outbound calls to everyday citizens. The real loophole isn't a public safety mandate; it's the wholesale VoIP market.
Italy has mandatory KYC for all mobile numbers, and scam/spam calls are a common problem. So no, it doesn't fix the problem at all.
Spam calls frequently don't have a source in the same country as their target victim.
> SHAKEN system, short for Signature-based Handling of Asserted information using toKENs [...]
> The name was inspired by Ian Fleming's character James Bond, who famously prefers his martinis "shaken, not stirred". STIR having existed already, the creators of SHAKEN "tortured the English language until [they] came up with an acronym."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN
(Unrelatedly, seeing a slash used casually within the URL slug feels so wrong)
If the FCC implements this, I expect a lot litigation because of the burden and legal liability this would place on telecom and VOIP companies. There are other less burdensome approaches to preventing spam that the FCC has not tried.
- Providers that can't afford it implement it - Non-IP networks - Small voice service providers that originate calls via satellite using U.S. NANP - Providers that lack control over the network infrastructure necessary to implement
Nothing is going to change as long as those holes exist.
It would certainly hurt a consumption-based economy, for starters.
I would be willing to bet money that any "better call addressing system" would be a design by committee where this just gets litigated there. And we'd end up with either a system that requires KYC per-call, or has compromises similar to what we're complaining about now.
Why can't you? They don't want to provide info for a credit check, you want human accountability. All that requires is for them to use a debit card for whatever service (prepaid or postpaid). Law enforcement can trace that if needed. No need for credit checks or really any other information directly in the hands of the telco.
I don't think it's necessary to go this far. The provider could indicate something like "CANNOT VERIFY NUMBER". I imagine most people would block such calls.
I would like anonymous political posts to be untraceable by the government.
I can't even get all of what I want.
More widely, however, there do seem to be differences that I don't know the details of. VOIP seems quite different (I use it for my old phones): DID numbers in the US seem extremely cheap and available instantly, with little information, while European ones seem to have an actual verification process and prices that would make large-scale spamming difficult.
First of all, the decision makers at the FCC profit from directly from spam, Christ.
Secondly, the indirect value of spam to the FCC is that it helps to justify initiatives to ruin the privacy of ordinary people via the constant push for KYC.
Just like "age verification", Flock cameras, license plate scanners, ubiquitous IoT with microphones and cameras, etc. Governments and corporations both profit from shredding every molecule of your privacy.
Considering most of those same telcos are donors and employers of large numbers of people across many constituencies of almost every nation, usually no politician has or is willing to spend political capital to shoot themselves in the foot like that. And no nation with a national telco company runs it well enough to ever even dream of spending money for something like IP addresses, they typically barely keep the lights on.
They probably do keep records, but something doesn't have to be perfect in order to be better.
The US seems so backwards at times.
Easy fix. It should be opt-in to accept a call that is routed through one of these. I know they allow it so some grandma in rural France that still uses a dial phone on a copper line that hasn't been touched since 1962 can call her son in New York, but for the rest of us who are not in that situation, we can just blacklist all those calls and lose nothing. This would even fix spam for the people who opt-in, because so few people have grandmas in rural France that it's not worth it for the spammers to bother anymore.
Almost every spam call has that I get, is spoofed.
Someone here explained it, once.
I think the spoofed calls use a legacy transport tech that can’t be forced to validate.
So maybe it's bad backronyms that demonstrate the soul. I don't know who's idea it was to allow a computer to generate whimsy, that should be interdicted by a fourth law of robotics.
Easier (and correct) fix: Telecoms operators should not be permitted to provide transit to a call that's routed through one of these.
> I know they allow it so some grandma in rural France that still uses a dial phone on a copper line that hasn't been touched since 1962...
This doesn't make sense. Even my inexpensive Mikrotik switches can augment packets with the ID of the port that they originated from. I do not believe for even a second that Telecoms Grade switching equipment is unable to do the same. The fact that that grandma can send and receive calls tells you that both that that equipment exists and that it knows what port her phone is connected to.
Not every unjust, stupid, or evil thing is illegal.
Even when something is illegal, that doesn't mean you have standing to challenge it in court, or that a given court has jurisdiction to do anything about it.
Courts (theoretically) follow rules. They can't just randomly set things aside without some basis in those rules. Lawsuits are not a magic universal remedy.
You could definitely argue that courts don't always follow rules, and that the Trump administration is doing everything it can to make that worse, but the changes they're making aren't going to work in your favor, because those changes are in the nature of "we can do whatever we want, and fuck the courts if they don't like it".
Mikrotik is a young spring chick compared to the dinosaurs in telecom.
The example should rather have been some telecom carrier in Africa or India. Telco equipment is expensive, the technology is ridiculously complex and getting companies especially in less well-off regions to replace aging stuff and updating it to modern standards is next to impossible. Think about it, the globally connected phone system includes countries where you get 10 GBit/s symmetric fiber in your home and it includes countries where people don't even have running water because they're so poor.
The fact that we in Western countries can have a realtime conversation with someone in the Saharan desert or in an Indian village that requires days worth of travel [1] is nothing short of a miracle.
[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/5/8/an-election-booth...
Unfortunately there isn’t an easy way to report abuse to the telcos (and regulators).
Not my job to "verify," in the technical sense.
When a call for an Indian crypto pump comes in as "SMITH, ROBERT", and a local exchange, I call that "spoofed."
The true american dream.
Robocalls are really annoying. Everyone knows the misery of scam calls, spoofed numbers, fake warranty pitches, fraudulent bank alerts, and automated political spam. The FCC is correct to claim that illegal calls erode trust in the phone system and cost Americans time, money, and security. But this problem does not justify a dragnet solution. Under the guise of fighting robocallers, the FCC is now considering “Know Your Customer” rules that could force phone providers to collect identity information from ordinary people before they can acquire or renew service with a phone carrier.
The proposal is being sold as consumer protection, but the surveillance regime it would create is something else entirely.
On April 30, 2026, the FCC adopted a Further Notice of Proposed Rulemaking seeking stronger KYC rules for voice service providers. The agency says possible measures include requiring providers to verify customer identities before enabling service, including name, address, government ID, and alternate phone numbers. The item was approved by Chairman Brendan Carr and Commissioners Gomez and Trusty.
That should alarm anyone who believes phone access is basic infrastructure, not a privilege conditioned on identity verification. The danger is not that the FCC wants to punish robocall scammers. The danger is that the FCC is contemplating rules that would put millions of innocent people into telecom identity databases in the hope that criminals will be inconvenienced. We've seen this playbook before. Such measures take more privacy from lawful users while determined criminals will adapt and find ways around the "gate."

KYC rules seen stopping determined criminals
KYC does not reliably stop determined criminals. We know this to be true simply from looking at KYC requirements in the financial system. There's no shortage of money laundering that occurs through regulated venues, in part because criminals don't have much trouble providing the required documentation to pass KYC checks. Why is this easy to route around? Mainly because so much personally identifiable information gets leaked on an ongoing basis that entire markets exist to trade this information. Buying a new identity and the associated documents to go along with it is cheap.
The proposal also reaches directly into prepaid service. The FCC is asking whether KYC requirements should vary between prepaid and postpaid plans, what information wireless providers currently obtain from prepaid SIM customers, and whether KYC measures should be imposed for prepaid service purchased through third-party vendors. That is the heart of the burner-phone issue. A prepaid phone is not just a movie prop for criminals. It can be a lifeline for a domestic violence survivor, a worker reporting misconduct, a journalist protecting a source, a protester avoiding retaliation, or someone who simply does not want every communication account tied to a government ID.
ACLU senior policy analyst Jay Stanley warned that the rulemaking contemplates taking away people’s ability to get a burner phone and could harm low-income people, domestic violence victims, and anyone who values privacy. That is the point the public needs to understand: anonymous or pseudonymous communication is not suspicious by default.
I've used KYC-free phone services for many years both as a security and privacy protection tactic. I, like anyone who might be suspected of having access to significant amounts of bitcoin, need strong privacy in order to protect myself from wrench attacks. This is not a theoretical threat; hundreds of Bitcoiners have been physically attacked and I myself have been swatted and extorted.
The most chilling parts of the FCC’s proposal go beyond ordinary ID collection. In its section on risk-based KYC differences, the FCC even asks whether providers should consult lists of terrorists, terrorist organizations, and “criminal persons” maintained by law enforcement entities. We've also seen this before and such lists would surely lead to false positives, abuse of innocent people being opaquely added to said lists, and the possibility that people could be denied basic communication infrastructure without a conviction or meaningful due process. Even though the FCC frames this as a question rather than a final decision, it is a dangerous question for a communications regulator to normalize.
The proposal also contemplates long retention periods. The FCC asks about requiring providers to retain KYC information and supporting records for four years after the customer relationship ends. That means the risk does not end when someone cancels service. A person’s identifying information could remain in carrier databases for years, exposed to breach, misuse, subpoena, sale, or mission creep.
Mission creep is already visible in the FCC’s own words. The agency asks whether enhanced KYC rules could help law enforcement investigate crimes beyond illegal calls, including organized crime, trafficking, espionage, influence operations, and other national-security concerns. That is a very different pitch from “we are stopping robocalls.” Once telecom providers are required to verify, retain, re-verify, and possibly screen customers, the phone system starts looking less like an open communications network and more like a chokepoint.
The FCC also proposes a per-call enforcement structure. It asks about assessing KYC violations on a per-call basis and specifically proposes a $2,500 per-call base forfeiture. That creates an obvious incentive: providers will protect themselves by over-verifying, over-retaining, and over-denying. When the penalty for under-screening can multiply by call volume, the safest corporate choice is not the one that protects consumer privacy, but rather the one that intrudes upon it greatly.
A free society does not require citizens to continually fight to retain their privacy. The burden should be on the government to justify eroding the rights of citizens via surveillance, data retention, and denial of access to essential communications tools.
We have seen this playbook before, oh so many times, to the point that it has become a meme. Those who seek to control the channels of communication must first be able to identify anyone who is using a network so that they can then send their thugs to silence the undesirable speaker.

There is a better path. The FCC can target high-volume commercial origination, negligent providers, spoofing infrastructure, SIM-box abuse, and repeat bad actors without forcing every ordinary person to surrender identity documents to get a phone number. It can strengthen enforcement against carriers that knowingly enable illegal call traffic. It can require narrow, risk-based due diligence for bulk callers. What it should not do is make every phone user prove who they are before they can communicate.
This is not a partisan issue. The average citizen does not want the government compiling lists of people who are conducting completely normal activities. They do not want “consumer protection” turned into surveillance. They do not want privacy treated as a loophole. And they do not want to find out later that a rule meant to stop robocalls quietly ended the last practical way to access the telephone system without government permission.
I often refer to KYC as Kill Your Customer, because the very act of collecting sensitive personally identifiable information about a customer puts them at risk. The KYC regime has made itself into a joke by resulting in massive data leaks over the years, which now undermine the reliability of KYC since criminals can easily obtain fresh documents to bypass KYC checks with stolen identities.
Specific to phone service, KYC will actively degrade the security of your phone account because tying your account to an identity means that a criminal who obtains enough of your PII becomes better positioned to impersonate you to your phone provider and attempt to transfer your number to a SIM under the criminal's control. This "SIM swapping" / "SIM jacking" issue has been a problem for over a decade now and is only getting worse as more and more of our lives are going digital and most of our important online accounts are tied to phone numbers and email addresses. The common attack vector for SIM jacking is:
KYC is a laughable regime put in place under the claim of "stopping criminals" but the reality is that it is security theater that actually weakens the privacy and security of consumers rather than protecting them from bad actors. We should not double down on this broken system by implementing it in even more aspects of our lives.
This is not yet a final rule. It is a proposed rule, which means the public still has a chance to push back. In the Federal Register, the FCC says it is seeking comment on this proposed change. That means we can give them a piece of our minds.
The comment deadline is June 25, 2026, with reply comments due July 27, 2026.
I urge you to submit a public comment to the FCC before June 25, 2026 opposing mandatory KYC identity checks for ordinary phone users. You can use the form at this link to submit a comment on this matter. Just click the link right now and submit a comment before you close this post! Yes, you, dear reader!
Remember that FCC comments are public. Assume that anything you submit, including personal information in the comment text or attachments, may become publicly viewable online. Don't include personal details you can't safely reveal to the world.
Feel free to use the following template to save yourself some time. Add / remove / edit whatever you wish to personalize it to your view.
I oppose any FCC rule that would require ordinary phone users, including prepaid users, to provide government-issued identification numbers, identity documents, physical addresses, alternate phone numbers, or similar personal information as a condition of obtaining or renewing phone service.
Robocalls and scam calls are serious problems, but mandatory identity collection for all users is overly broad, privacy-invasive, and likely to harm lawful users who need privacy, including domestic violence survivors, journalists, whistleblowers, low-income citizens, political organizers, and people facing retaliation or stalking.
The FCC should reject any requirement that voice providers consult law-enforcement watchlists or lists of “criminal persons” before granting service. Access to basic communications infrastructure should not depend on opaque lists, screening systems prone to abuse and false positives, or processes lacking transparency.
The FCC should also reject multi-year retention of KYC records for ordinary customers. Retaining identity information and supporting records after a customer leaves service creates unnecessary breach, misuse, and surveillance risks.
The Commission should instead focus on narrow, evidence-based enforcement against high-volume illegal callers, spoofing abuse, SIM-box operations, and providers that knowingly or recklessly enable illegal traffic. Any new rules should be targeted, privacy-protective, data-minimizing, and should preserve access to prepaid and privacy-protective phone service for lawful users.
Please do not turn phone service into an identity checkpoint. Reject mandatory KYC requirements for ordinary telephone users.
Now is the time for all Americans who are concerned about the constant erosion of their privacy to speak out.
I alwys imagined that there are certain shady providers ("grey-market Twilio" sort of idea) that just let you run single outbound call/text requests through a giant pool of numbers shared with other customers of the service. Perhaps specifically a bank of residential numbers plugged into banks of regular cell phones, like a residential IP proxy service provider.
It's very unlikely anybody is placing spam/scam calls with regular cell phones when VoIP numbers are easy and cheap to get, and when VoIP systems are far easier to manage.