The MRI example is very interesting - add a bit of noise and the crisp results fall apart. But we know we can carve out some determinism by orchestrating around LLM (validation loops) but they are only as good as the coverage of validation and the fidelity of expectations.
Which raises a fundamental question: where is the line between an effective harness and a broken one?
To put it in halting problem terms, if we have an outside program that checks the internal program for halting, we know we will capture some number of previously incatchable halting problems. How can we quantify this? We know there is a class of halts we can catch and prevent, but there will always be more complex ones that escape us.
In the real world, knowing the task is impossible doesn't impact the value of reducing the problem. More importantly, knowing which types of halting problems can be fully captured and which ones are intractable. Agent orchestration could directly benefit from layering a framework over this fuzzy space of knowableness.
> We help companies make sense of technology and build lasting improvements to their operations.
Could it possibly be any more meaningless? I could help make sense of words and build lasting improvements to drivel.
Not to diminish Gödel's work, but the greatest logician since Aristotle was clearly Gottlob Frege, the inventor of modern predicate logic.
"These four threads share a common ancestor in what Gödel proved in 1931, and Turing sharpened in 1936. Rule-based systems cannot fully account for themselves. A system cannot certify its own trustworthiness. A learning framework cannot determine its own boundaries. A safety strategy cannot verify its own completeness.
None of this is softened by the fact that a neural network feels organic rather than rule-like. A model’s weights are numbers, and its training is arithmetic, all of it running on von Neumann’s realisation of Turing’s imaginary device. AI is not adjacent to this mathematics. AI is made of it.
The AI industry, understandably, would rather not dwell on this. "
This is a complete non-sequitur. Godel's argument isn't even that profound: it just says that a system of axioms good enough to embed standard natural number arithmetic must be independent of a certain constructed sentence, i.e., it will run the same whether that sentence is true or false and you can't tell from its axioms which of these two options is in effect. While that sucks for philosophers, it doesn't make mathematics less useful, less dependable, or less correct in a practical sense. It has no practical implications to anything that the AI industry is promising today.
Yes, formal mathematics has such limits. We can't expect machines to be perfect and provably perfect. But the industry isn't assuming that. Why would it? Natural intelligence is not perfect or provably perfect, either.
Rather than certainty, measurement is often enough. We can't prove a program will always halt, but we can check it halts in a specific execution.
Approximation is also often all we need. Even if we can't prove that we can train a network with more than 50% success, if we can get multiple shots at that (using different data, or initial random weights, or training techniques, or something else), then we can reduce that danger exponentially. (I don't know that we have a guarantee of succeeding there, but this would be the hope, and I am not aware of anything showing it is impossible, unlike perfect provability.)
Finally, it is possible that perfect provability does work on the problems we care about. Godel and Turing etc.'s proofs rely on finding rare situations where we can't prove things - cleverly-constructed pathological cases - but perhaps human behavior does not fall into that set. Human behavior may not be a pathological case for proofs or learnability.
The piece follows four threads where formal limits show up in AI practice today: learnable problems that mathematics cannot sort, neural networks that exist but cannot be trained, self-improving systems that dropped their safety proofs for benchmark scores, and the fact that “will this AI cause harm” is, mathematically, an unanswerable question.
The piece is long and the math is dense. I’m curious whether people see the connection as tight or as overextended—whether Gödel’s structural limits actually do constrain what we’re doing now, or whether I’m collapsing categories that should stay separate.
There’s a sense in which the set of natural numbers is too big to be practically useful, but no smaller set makes sense when writing proofs. The set of numbers you can reach without using induction (say, by using a computer to check) isn’t well-defined.
And that has nothing to do with AI’s limitations.
The computer scientist says “The halting problem cannot be solved, I have proven it” and the software engineer goes “30 second timeout, if the answer’s not ready by then we don’t need it”
But say the size of the continuum is, e.g., \aleph_3, (in this case CH is false, but it's not "horribly false"), then SBD shows how to build a compression scheme, and thus their EMX -- estimating the maximum problem -- is "learnable". But the compression scheme whose existence they show (it's just a function whose existence they prove) can't actually be encoded, since it requires identifying a maximal element by invoking the well-ordering theorem. So there's no algorithm that enables solving the problem (though a function solving the problem exists).
This result, without further work, does not immediately say anything about the sorts of problems for which abstractions can be learned. And abstraction is at the heart of understanding and problem solving.
See e.g., https://arxiv.org/pdf/1909.08410 (§5)
Note that the article itself is not as careful as you are here about correctly stating what Godel's Incompleteness Theorem actually says. The article states it this way: "any set of rules powerful enough to handle basic arithmetic will contain true statements it cannot prove". But that's wrong, because, when you take into account Godel's Completeness Theorem, you realize that, for any formal system complex enough for the proof of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem to go through, there must be a semantic model of that system in which the Godel sentence for that system is false! The article's misstatement is unfortunately very common, but it's still a misstatement.
"One!" "Two!" "Three!" "Infinity!" "Infinity plus one!" "Infinity plus two!" "Infinity plus infinity!" "Infinity times infinity!" "Infinity to the power of infinity!" "Infinity to the power of infinity to the power of infinity!" "The supremum of all ordinals that can be expressed in a finite sequence of symbols!" "The supremum of all ordinals that can be expressed in a finite sequence of symbols plus one!"
Maybe. That's if you assume that the universe is a conventional computer. Far from settled and the alternative isn't necessarily just "God does it" - it might be that the universe is a "computer-plus", with some processes that produce results not computable by Turing means. It would be strange, but so is quantum mechanics, so...
And it's annoying that comments like yours get downvoted. Maybe HN should have a "vote that this is undisclosed AI writing" button for every post now.
That's the loophole. There is mathematics without infinity.[1] Until recently, it was considered somewhat fringe. But there's been enough development that it's now clear you can do mathematics without infinity. In that view, infinities are a labor-saving device to get rid of special cases. They're not essential. Mathematicians used to hate special cases, but now that the active ones all grew up with computers, they're not so scared of IF statements.
You can have "arbitrarily large" but not "infinite". Boyer-Moore theory is like that. It starts out like Peano arithmetic. There is (ZERO) and (ADD1 (ZERO)) and (EQUALP A B) and (LESSP A B) as predicates. That's the axiomatic basis. Numbers are (ADD1 (ADD1 (ADD1 (ZERO)))), etc.
You can have recursive functions, but they must terminate. They must have a value which, for each recursion, is LESSP than the previous iteration. That's how you prove termination.
You can do most of mathematics that way. But not infinitesimals. You never can get to
1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 ... = 2
in that kind of constructive mathematics. That requires an infinite recursion, which is not allowed.[1] https://engtechnica.com/rethinking-mathematics-without-infin...
No it isn't -- this is a fundamental misunderstanding. What is unanswerable is "For all x where x is an AI, will x cause harm?" ... but there is an infinity of specific AIs that provably will or won't cause harm.
Likewise this a very common misunderstanding of the Halting Problem -- Turing proved that there is no TM that can prove whether m will halt for all possible TMs m ... but there are myriad TMs that provably do halt or provably don't halt.
The Church-Turing thesis throws cold water on this: since the human body (including brain) is describable by a finite system of Schrödinger equations, and these equations can be solved numerically by a Turing machine, the human process of creating an axiom scheme should be Turing-computable. But some recent results on very large finite numbers (busy beaver) suggest there may be a subtlety here, e.g. complexity blows up to the point that it takes far more energy than the sun to simulate one human.
The more interesting subtlety: for a physically meaningful result you would need to define configuration space very carefully, e.g. not screwing up the boundary consitions or causal order of subsystems. Perhaps defining this is actually not computable, and after every delta(t) in a computer simulation, a human has to check the physics and redefine certain parameters of the system. Solving the Schrodinger equation numerically is certainly Turing-computable, but the process of ensuring that solution is physically meaningful isn't even slightly formalized. It may be unformalizable.
I've seen lot of bizarre, hard to understand or weirdly formulaic writing pre-2023, so I guess that's why I don't assume anything is AI generated.
[1] BTW, I am not.
It is. This happens to some people who discover undecidability is a thing. Then they get carried away and try to generalize to other areas. Branches of this line of thinking include the concept that intelligence must be analog with infinite precision, (this is the same line of thinking as the argument against digital audio) or intelligence must be "quantum". (Penrose).
The formal answer to the halting problem is that deterministic systems with finite memory must repeat a previous state or halt. Undecidability requires unbounded memory. Finite memory systems may have so many states and be so complex that decidability is computationally infeasible. But that's not impossibility. I used to get this objection when I was working on proof of correctness systems. We now know that some programs are hard to decide, but many useful ones are not.
If your program is anywhere near undecidable, it's probably broken. Microsoft's position with their Static Driver Verifier was that if 45 minutes of symbolic execution hadn't found a way out, you failed driver verification. This is one of those problems, like linear programming, where part of the problem space is really hard in a computational sense, but most of it isn't.
(I sometimes wonder if Penrose was on to something with his idea that the brain uses quantum effects in microtubules.[1] Penrose is a first-rate physicist. His philosophy is not as good. It's become clear that we can do artificial intelligence with acres of transistors and gigawatts of power, but the efficiency is terrible. We need either a more efficient algorithm or better hardware elements. LLM training now is like a Newcomen steam engine, where something the size of a house had the power output of a modern motorcycle engine.)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reducti...
All of which reminds me of virus-scanning on computers, and AI efforts for "safety".
Making the connection between GEB and AI isn't new, apparently: https://matthodges.com/posts/2025-08-26-music-to-break-model...
This obviously changes absolutely nothing about his status as greatest logician since Aristotle.
By the way, he is also the person who could be, more appropriately than anyone else, called "father of analytic philosophy", since he strongly influenced Russel, Wittgenstein and Carnap, all themselves major figures of early analytic philosophy, and wrote influential analytic philosophy classics like "On Sense and Reference" more than 130 years ago.
Michael Dummett (who was, according to an obituary, "among the most significant British philosophers of the last century and a leading campaigner for racial tolerance and equality") marked Frege's 1884 book "The Foundations of Arithmetic" as the beginning of analytic philosophy.
If the universe indeed uses real values, it's possible that it's more powerful than Turing machines.
However, this doesn't mean that TMs can't operate on such numbers. You can compute the fact that pi + pi = 2 * pi even if you can't enumerate all of pi's decimals.
> However, this doesn't mean that TMs can't operate on such numbers.
Well, it kinda does. For example, you can't compute the sum of two arbitrary real values in a finite number of steps.
That being said, it's possible that the universe actually is not "running" on real numbers. This would also mean that our physics built on top of calculus is just an approximation.
This has always fascinated me. You can't really construct a meaningful amount of calculus without having real-valued variables. The intermediate value theorem depends on it, and it's one of the foundational parts.
I tried to construct something like "bounded error rational calculus", by trying to use rational ranges instead of real values and then constraining the range size. I was able to recover _some_ calculus, but I really have not studied it in enough details.
For example, let's take two arbitrary real numbers, call them x and y. They're almost certainly irrational uncomputable numbers, of course. Now, what is their sum? It's x + y, of course - I can tell you that without doing an infinity of computational work. Now, is this a useful representation? It very much depends on the use you have for it. For two unrelated uncomputable numbers, their sum is almost certainly uncomputable anyway, so there's not going to be any meaningful representation of it either. However, we can still derive useful properties about it, and use it in physical simulations as we need. For example, if both x and y are positive, I can tell you that x+y is greater than either of them, so I can also tell you that the electromagnetic force between two particles that are at distance x+y will be weaker than the force between two particles at distances of just x or just y.
So, what would it mean for the universe to "compute the exact value" of these two, or of their sum? What can physics do, assuming that some aspects are indeed continuous, that a simulation running on a TM actually can't?
In the last years of his life, Kurt Gödel starved himself to death. Convinced that someone was poisoning his food, he ate only what his wife Adele had tasted first. When she was hospitalised after a stroke in late 1977, he stopped eating altogether. He died in Princeton Hospital on January 14th 1978, weighing 29 kilograms. The death certificate read “malnutrition and wasting from neglect caused by personality disturbance.” The greatest logician since Aristotle, a man who had proved that mathematics itself contained truths it could never reach, was killed by a distorted inner logic he could not escape.
Almost nobody outside mathematics knows his name. Einstein did. The two were faculty at Princeton’s Institute for Advanced Study from the 1940s onward, and Einstein, by then ageing and isolated from the mainstream of physics, told colleagues that he went to his office “just to have the privilege of walking home with Kurt Gödel.” They made an odd pair on the Princeton sidewalks, Einstein rumpled and laughing, Gödel dapper in a white linen suit, talking animatedly in German on their daily walk to and from the Institute. John von Neumann, who cancelled an entire lecture series on David Hilbert’s programme after reading Gödel’s 1931 paper, called his work “singular and monumental, a landmark which will remain visible far in space and time.”
So what did Gödel prove, and why does it matter now, in the middle of an AI boom that is spending trillions of dollars, much of it resting on the assumption that intelligence is a scaling problem?

Put simply, Gödel proved that mathematics cannot fully explain itself. The longer version requires a little patience. In 1900, the German mathematician David Hilbert challenged the field to build what amounted to a perfect machine for mathematics. Start with a set of basic rules (called axioms), things so obviously true they need no argument, and then derive every mathematical truth from those rules, step by mechanical step. If you could do that, mathematics would be complete, meaning every true statement would be provable, consistent, and free of contradictions. You could hand the whole enterprise over to a clerk who follows instructions. This was Hilbert’s programme, and for three decades it was the organising ambition of the field. Then, in 1931, at the age of 25, Gödel demolished it in one stroke.
Gödel’s first incompleteness theorem proved that any set of rules powerful enough to handle basic arithmetic will contain true statements it cannot prove, not because the rules were poorly chosen, but as a structural feature of rule-based systems themselves.
His trick was to construct a mathematical sentence that refers to itself. Consider the sentence, “This sentence has no proof.” Gödel’s technical feat, the part that fills his 1931 paper, was to build this sentence from pure arithmetic, by encoding statements about numbers as numbers themselves. It is not English smuggled into maths. It is pure maths. There are only two possibilities. Either the system can prove it, or it cannot.
If the system can prove “This sentence has no proof,” there is an immediate problem. We have just proved a sentence that claims to have no proof. A system that proves false things is contradictory, and contradictions in mathematics are fatal. Once you allow a single one, you can use it to prove anything, including that 1 equals 2. The system becomes useless.
If the system cannot prove “This sentence has no proof.”, there is a different problem. The sentence said it had no proof, and it turns out to be right. It is a true statement. But the system has no way to prove it. So we have a truth the system cannot reach, which means Hilbert’s rulebook has a blind spot.
Any sensible mathematical system would rather have blind spots than contradictions. So the sentence (logicians call it a Gödel sentence) is true but unprovable, and Hilbert’s dream of a rulebook that can prove every true thing was dead.
Gödel’s second theorem twisted the knife. It showed that no set of mathematical rules can prove, using only its own rules, that it is free of contradictions. If you want to check whether your system is trustworthy, you always need a bigger system to do the checking, and that bigger system inherits the same limitation. Turtles all the way down.
This is not mysticism, nor is it a claim about consciousness or creativity. It is a precise result about rule-based systems, the kind of systems that all software, including AI, are built from. That is what makes it relevant today.
Hilbert had asked for one more thing, and Gödel’s paper left it wounded rather than dead. Alongside completeness and consistency, he wanted decidability, a mechanical method that could, in a finite number of steps, determine whether any mathematical statement follows from the rules. No genius required: crank the handle and read the verdict.
In 1936, a 23-year-old Cambridge fellow named Alan Turing killed that too. To prove that no mechanical method could exist, he first had to pin down what “mechanical method” meant, which nobody had done before. His answer was an imaginary device, a paper tape and a head that moves along it, reading and writing symbols according to a fixed table of rules. Anything a human clerk could work out by rote, this device could also work out.
Then he showed the device has a blind spot of its own. Imagine a fortune-teller who is never wrong, and a stubborn customer determined to sabotage every forecast. “You will leave by the door.” He climbs out the window. “You will take the window.” He strolls out the door. She is not bad at her job. The job is impossible because her prediction feeds back into the very behaviour it is trying to predict.
Turing turned that scene into code. The checker plays the fortune-teller. It is a program whose job is to read any other program the way you might read a recipe, then predict its fate. Either “this one finishes” or “this one grinds on forever.”
The saboteur plays the stubborn customer. It is a short program with a copy of the checker tucked inside, plus one standing rule. Ask the checker what I am predicted to do, then do the opposite. If the prediction is that it finishes, it deliberately loops forever. If the prediction is that it runs forever, it stops dead.
So what does the checker predict for the saboteur? “Finishes” is wrong, because the saboteur hears that and loops. “Grinds on forever” is wrong, because the saboteur hears that and stops.
The saboteur is assembled entirely from the checker’s own parts, which makes it inevitable rather than a fluke. Build a perfect checker, and you have, in the same afternoon, built the plans for the thing that breaks it. A perfect checker is therefore a contradiction in terms.
Programs that predict how other programs will behave most of the time are unremarkable — static analysers and type checkers are used routinely. The program that cannot exist is the one that is never wrong. This is the so-called halting problem: Gödel’s self-referential sentence, rebuilt from machinery, a machine then forced to ask a question about itself.
To show what machines cannot do, Turing had to invent the machine. His imaginary device is the theoretical blueprint of the general-purpose computer, a single machine that can run any program you feed it as data. Nine years later, John von Neumann, who knew Turing’s paper well and admired it, wrote the First Draft of a Report on the EDVAC, which is, in logical terms, Turing’s universal machine rendered in vacuum tubes. Essentially every computer built since follows that design. The laptop on your desk and the datacentre GPU training the next frontier model are, once the engineering is stripped away, the same device from a 1936 logic paper.
Gödel himself thought Turing had done him a favour. It was Turing’s definition of a mechanical procedure, he wrote, that made a “precise and unquestionably adequate” general version of his own theorems possible. And the machine in the theorem turned out to be the thing every business now runs on, born as a stepping stone in a proof about what it could never do.
Once you have a machine that can run any program, the next question is whether it can improve itself autonomously. In 2003, the German computer scientist Jürgen Schmidhuber proposed a thought experiment he called the Gödel machine. It was an AI agent designed to rewrite its own code, with one ironclad constraint. It would change itself only when it could first prove, with mathematical certainty, that the change would make it better. Not “test and see.” Prove it, as you would a theorem, before running the new version. No proof, no rewrite.
Nobody ever built one. To prove that a code change will improve future performance, you need to search through all possible mathematical arguments that could establish that fact. For any interesting problem, the number of candidate proofs is so astronomically large that the search would take longer than any improvement could ever be worth. It is the computational equivalent of insisting on a signed certificate from every possible future before crossing the road. The Gödel machine was provably optimal but completely impractical.
In May 2025, the Japanese AI lab Sakana released a system called the Darwin Gödel Machine. It retained the self-improvement loop but dropped the proof requirement. Instead of proving that a code change would help, the Darwin Gödel Machine proposes changes using a large language model, tests them against SWE-bench (a benchmark that scores whether an AI can fix real bugs in real software), and keeps what works. The name still invokes Gödel, but the mechanism is Darwinian. Natural selection, not formal proof. Fitness measured by benchmark scores, not mathematical certainty.
Judged purely on the scoreboard, it delivered. The system improved its SWE-bench score from 20% to 50% through autonomous self-modification. It developed emergent behaviours, such as patch validation and error memory, that no one had designed.
Schmidhuber’s original machine, though, had exactly one property that made it safe by construction: the proof. Every modification was guaranteed to be an improvement before it ran. The Darwin Gödel Machine replaced that guarantee with something weaker: passing the benchmarks. The difference between “provably better” and “scored higher on the benchmark test” is the difference between an aircraft type certified against a spec and one that simply hasn’t crashed yet.
This is, compressed into one system’s evolution, the trajectory of AI safety. The formal guarantee was too expensive, so the industry replaced it with empirical validation and hoped nobody would notice the difference. “Self-improving” went from a mathematical statement about proof-carrying code to a softer description of an agent that rewrites itself and checks whether the benchmarks improve. Gödel was gone.
Some problems in machine learning are mathematically unanswerable. In 2019, Shai Ben-David and colleagues published a paper in Nature Machine Intelligence under the understated but devastating title “Learnability can be undecidable.” They took a straightforward question, “given this type of problem, can a machine learn to solve it?”, and proved that the deepest rules of mathematics cannot always settle it. The answer is neither yes nor no. It is silence.
The word “learnable” has an exact meaning here. A machine studies a sample and produces a rule, which is then applied to data it has never seen. That is the basis of pretty much every model we commonly use. For any given problem type, learning theory asks whether a sample size guarantees that the rule will work. If such a guarantee exists, the problem is learnable. If none does, it is not. A simple question with two possible answers. Every type of problem is supposed to get an answer.
Ben-David’s team asked it about a mundane task, choosing which adverts to show a website’s visitors based on a sample of past ones. Was this learnable or not?
The answer, in their framework, depends on how many different kinds of visitors there could possibly be. That pool is not the eight billion people alive today. The model reduces each visitor to a profile of measurements, and measurements vary enormously. A visitor might linger on a page for three seconds or for a shade over three, and between any two possible profiles there is always room for a third. The pool of possibilities therefore has no end.
That arrangement, a finite sample making predictions about an endless pool, appears across almost every AI product on the market, not just in advertising. Training data is always finite. The world into which a system is deployed is not. Ben-David’s question is whether that leap can ever carry a guarantee, and everything hinges on how big the infinity is.
That sounds like it must have an answer, but it does not. Georg Cantor proved in the 1870s that infinity comes in sizes. Whole numbers form one infinity. The points on a line form a strictly bigger one, and the proof is surprisingly simple. Try to pair every whole number with a point on the line, and Cantor showed you will always miss some, no matter how clever your pairing. Two collections are both endless, yet one permanently outruns the other. The continuum hypothesis asks a follow-up so obvious it would occur to a child. Is there any size of infinity between those two?
Gödel proved in 1940 that the standard rules of mathematics can never prove the answer is no. Later, Paul Cohen proved in 1963, using a technique he invented for the purpose, that we can never prove the answer is yes (his proof is dense, and we’re already covering a lot of theoretical mathematics).
The upshot is that no cleverer generation is coming to settle this one. The rules of mathematics simply contain no answer. Take every rule of arithmetic and logic we have and follow them as far as they go, in any direction you like. You will never arrive at yes, and you will never arrive at no. The question is open in both directions, permanently.
Now the chain closes. Whether the advertising problem is learnable depends on the size of that infinity. The size of that infinity is a question mathematics cannot answer. So whether the advertising problem is learnable is a question mathematics cannot answer. The strange silence at the very bottom of mathematics travels up the chain and surfaces as a question about showing adverts to shoppers.
Obviously, no practical everyday ad campaign hangs on the continuum hypothesis. But the casualty was the promise. Learning theory is supposed to sort every problem into neat buckets: learnable or not. Ben-David found a problem it can never sort. Not a problem waiting for better mathematicians. A problem where the sorting itself is impossible. The University of Waterloo, Ben-David’s institution, described the result as “important and almost troubling.” No budget fixes this one, the way a budget can fix training costs or patchy data. It is a hole in the floor, a place where the mathematical ground itself gives way.
A complementary result, published in 2022, is narrower and stranger. Training a neural network is, at bottom, an exercise in trial and error. You show the network examples, measure how wrong its answers are, then nudge its millions of internal settings to make them slightly less wrong. Repeat this billions of times, and often the network converges on something remarkably good. The Cambridge mathematician Matthew Colbrook and colleagues showed in a 2022 paper in PNAS that this process has a hard boundary nobody expected.
The boundary appeared in medical imaging. An MRI scanner does not take a photograph. It collects measurements, and to keep patients in the incredibly claustrophobic machine for minutes rather than hours, it collects far fewer than a complete image needs. Software has to rebuild the full picture from the partial data. Neural networks became the favoured tool for this reconstruction because they do it faster and more sharply than the older mathematical methods.
Then researchers started probing the results and found something unnerving. Nudge the input slightly, with a trace of noise or a small movement by the patient, and the output could change out of all proportion. Sometimes the rebuilt scan came back looking perfect but wrong, showing details that were never in the body. Worse, it is a failure that does not look like a failure. A blurry image warns you. A crisp fabricated one does not.
A demonstration of capability may show nothing is amiss, not because anyone is cheating. A demo runs the network on typical inputs, the kind it was trained on, where it genuinely performs well. The failures live in the near-misses, a typical input plus a whisker of noise. Near-misses are endless, and a demo can show only a handful of scenarios. The demo is honest, and the danger sits exactly where it cannot look.
The natural presumptive diagnosis is undertraining. Feed it more scans and buy a bigger model, and surely the wobble irons itself out. That hope is what Colbrook’s theorem takes off the table. What the paper proved has two halves. First, for certain reconstruction problems, a network that is both accurate and stable exists. Somewhere in the space of all possible settings sits a configuration immune to the wobble. Second, no training procedure can find it. Not the ones we have. Not any. None at all, ever.
The second half is what kills the more-data hope. A training procedure is itself a program, a step-by-step recipe running on the machine Turing described, and the proof covers every recipe there could ever be. More data does not change that. Data is what you feed a recipe, and the theorem is about the recipes. It is like knowing a winning lottery ticket is in a barrel whilst simultaneously holding a proof that no way of drawing from the barrel will ever pull it out. The ticket is real. The searching is futile.
As Colbrook put it, the paradox Turing and Gödel identified has now been “brought forward into the world of AI”, and for certain problems the required algorithms simply cannot exist.
For the overwhelming majority of real-world problems, training works. But there is no general way to tell in advance which problems will defeat us, and the assumption that enough data and compute will always get us over the line is, in certain corners of the problem space, provably false.
The most provocative extension of Gödel’s legacy into AI concerns a question that sounds simple. Can we guarantee that a sufficiently powerful AI will not cause harm?
In 2021, Manuel Alfonseca and colleagues published a paper in the Journal of Artificial Intelligence Research arguing that, for a general-purpose superintelligent system, the answer is provably no. Their argument leans on the halting problem, the impossibility Turing established on his way to inventing the computer. You can check specific programs for specific bugs. What you cannot build is the universal checker, the one that works for any program in any situation.
Alfonseca’s team showed that asking “will this AI harm humans?” is, mathematically, the same type of question as asking “will this program halt?” Both require predicting the complete future behaviour of a system from its current state. To guarantee a system will never cause harm, you would need to trace every possible sequence of actions it could take and confirm that none is harmful. That is the halting problem in different clothes, and Turing proved that this class of prediction is impossible to guarantee. You cannot build a general-purpose AI safety monitor for the same reason you cannot build a general-purpose program-behaviour predictor. The task is not difficult. It is formally, provably, impossible.
The authors went further, showing that we may not even be able to recognise when a superintelligent system has arrived, because deciding whether a machine is smarter than a human falls into the same class of unanswerable questions. The argument is grounded, not speculative, though it assumes a generality beyond any AI system possesses today. No system currently available is general enough to handle any possible input the way a true Turing machine can.
What it establishes still matters, though. Certain safety guarantees are not engineering problems awaiting a sufficiently clever solution. They are mathematical impossibilities, like trying to square the circle or list every real number between 0 and 1. The safety community can build better guardrails and better kill switches. What it cannot build, given the computational framework we share, is a system that certifies another system as unconditionally safe.
These four threads share a common ancestor in what Gödel proved in 1931, and Turing sharpened in 1936. Rule-based systems cannot fully account for themselves. A system cannot certify its own trustworthiness. A learning framework cannot determine its own boundaries. A safety strategy cannot verify its own completeness.
None of this is softened by the fact that a neural network feels organic rather than rule-like. A model’s weights are numbers, and its training is arithmetic, all of it running on von Neumann’s realisation of Turing’s imaginary device. AI is not adjacent to this mathematics. AI is made of it.
The AI industry, understandably, would rather not dwell on this. The commercial logic of scaling treats intelligence as a problem of sufficient resources, more data, more compute, more parameters, more money. Hard limits are a vibe-killer, and for the overwhelming majority of commercial applications, the limits Gödel identified are irrelevant. Your chatbot will not encounter the continuum hypothesis when re-drafting an email.
But whether a self-improving agent can guarantee that its improvements are genuine, and whether anyone can prove a system will not cause harm, are questions that sit squarely within the territory Gödel mapped. His inheritance is the precise framework that shows certain guarantees about thinking machines are provably unavailable, which is different from saying machines can never think.
Einstein’s eccentric walking companion saw it before anyone else. Formal systems cannot fully certify themselves. That was a logician’s problem in 1931. It became an engineer’s problem when Turing turned the proof into a machine. It is now a commercial problem, because the industry betting trillions on those machines is implicitly selling guarantees the mathematics has never supported. Guarantees generated by systems that cannot check themselves any more than Gödel’s own warped internal logic could. He died trapped inside it.
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