Standard practice everywhere in Asia.

This is kind of besides the point though right. If you think EU nations already have serious issues why would you then also export personal data to another nation that has those same issues and worse?

For those who are neither US nor EU citizens, both immigration systems are a hassle, and in my experience the EU's is sadly a worse one.

IMHO this level of tracking ain't worth the safety gained. Seems like safety gain is just the excuse at this point.

Once for each arrival.

I haven't been to the EU in a decade, but last time I was there I was standing in the customs line for non-EU residents and someone official saw my US passport in hand and directed me to the much shorter/faster EU citizens line. I walked right through customs without being checked at all.

It's good for security, it's more convenient than police doing police work.

Until it's not. Until it's hacked or abused as powerful mechanisms commonly are.

Isn't there upside to the US too if more Europeans visit the US?

Well, there is a third camp. Israeli-style bio-social profiling of 100% of travelers.

That really makes travel awful !

Maybe this resonates in the American case where cops are notoriously undertrained and over-violent, but I gotta say it sounds extremely dystopian to me. All-power computerized control isn’t “intelligence”.

It’s also a false dichotomy. You can have lots of automation with humans in the loop. Humans can use automation to be faster and this is common.

- with ESTA, your country of origin is "trusted" and individuals in general undergo a lower level of scrutiny at a US port of entry.

- with a VISA, you country of origin is "not trusted" and individuals are granted the right to travel to the US after they undergo interviews at an US embassy and get approved.

Neither is a right to enter the US. Just a right to be transported by air/ship to a US port of entry. If the CBP lets you in it is a different story.

This is the US version. Other countries have their own rules.

Hacking is a concern in both but the bigger issue is potential for abuse of power.

In the case of border checks the target is by necessity someone that isn't a citizen. This means that:

1. We generally afford them less safeguards than citizens so it creates less precedent (both legal and in terms of overton window)

2. The potential for abuse is ultimately less because a traveler on a short term visa is unlikely to still be in the country / unable to leave if a hostile government comes to power and intends to abuse the data

Also fingerprints and a picture are significantly less invasive than pervasive video surveillance in public spaces

It only works if the "intellence-driven security" is being developed in good faith.

ESTA is supposed to be a lower hurdle than a visa. But from what I've heard, approvals take longer and quite a few people get rejected.

Countries like to pretend they're still visa free, but honestly, it's just a pain in the ass and I'd rather they call it a visa. It's very, very easy to book a plane to a country, see all info indicating its visa free and you can just go, then right as you're about to head out, you decide to check for the 50th time just to be sure... and it turns out there's some "visa free process" for your country called EDtdjvubHHVJVF or some other random assortment of letters that involves a 2 hour application process and 24-72 hours (business days only) for approval results to come in. A visa would be preferable because it's more transparent.

This allows doing visa type checks but not technically violating the agreement as it's not called a visa.

It's more for the airline than for you. If you have an ESTA and get refused entry, the airline isn't fined for bringing someone unauthorized to the border.

Remember once the dataset is there, it is not ever going to go away, regardless of who is in power

"The automated query can be based on: * Identity information included in the application or in travel documents, such as name, date of birth, national ID number, and/or * the fingerprint of an individual."

Sounds like they could send requests to that computer system just based on publicly available information on a person like name and date of birth, even if the person never applied for a visa or tried to enter the US.

Things have changed in the last 10 years. I recalled from 2016, while some countries like Sweden were super strict about entry/departure (lady manually counted number of days on passport) others had been so lax it was comical: France would take one quick glance at you and stamp the passport, Ireland would at least test if you could answer a simple question with the stamp already pre positioned on the passport upon answering said question.

I presume this electronic system finally accounts for all of these differences and provides a minimum standard for exit/entry. Now it being digitized there is no wiggle room on exit/entry. Frankly with how lousy US exit/entry seems for foreigners, I don't mind the EU wanting to maintain strict standards for visitors to their borders as well. I wouldn't even mind them being extra rough on us Americans. Its totally understandable. Preferably take all the US diplomat passports to a back room as well while they are at it.

I've had my fingerprints taken every time I've been to the US, although not always all the fingers every time, presumably on subsequent visits if you have passport + right hand matches, they don't bother scanning left hand or thumbs.

I've certainly had the full scan on multiple occasions though.

On the flip side foreign entities mostly won't ruin your life over petty deviance or find a way to predate upon you like local ones will because the foreign institution cannot project violence into your jurisdiction cheaply and without opposition the way the local one can. If I could choose who got access to the exclusion of the other it would be the foreign power every single time.

I know this wasn't what you were getting at but it's worth looking at the other side of the coin too seeing as voting barely grants us any power over how local entities use our data.

It states regarding a visa: "A visa allows a foreign citizen to travel to a U.S. port-of-entry (generally an airport) and request permission to enter the United States. A visa does not guarantee entry into the United States.

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS), U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officials at the port-of-entry have authority to permit or deny admission to the United States. "

Nope

It's the same deal as you mention above

The information you need to provide as an Iranian after a P1 visa is not remotely comparable to a British citizen after a B1 visa either.

It seems like you already have no say over what they're doing with your data, and they're selling it to the US.

The US is particularly bad as you need an ESTA to transit. I had a friend nearly caught out by that on a flight from London to Lima which involved changing in Miami. When changing plane from an international to international flight in most countries you get off a plane, maybe go through security, and then get on another plane. In the US this isn't a thing. You have to immigrate into the country for 20 minutes.

That's incorrect, holding a B1/B2 US visa only allows you to arrive at the port of entry, the actual permission to enter the country is always left to the border officer interviewing you

Yes. Because the primary issue is it was too easy to fly under the radar once you were in the Schengen zone.

Also in 2026 there are security threats which means tighter borders is a necessity.

Clearly in 2026, the easiest way to achieve compliance at all Schengen borders accross 29 countries is to digitise it, including biometrics.

Yes, to put it politely, there have been "teething issues" in its implementation. But given the sheer scale of the change, that is only to be expected. I think any of us working in tech would agree that it would be delusional to think such a thing would be perfect from day zero.

When a guy started chasing after me 30 seconds later I realized my assumption was wrong. But there really wasn't a way to know.

Just because countries keep electing people with variations of the same policies doesn't make it unelected.

But yeah, it does sound that way, but certainly not clear cut to me what the situation is. I.e. does the agreement involve clauses about what to do if this is abused? Do we have a way to detect if theyre using this on non-travellers? Etc.

A reason I refused to go to Syria a couple of years ago. A colleague who did go said "oh I have a US (i) visa so I'm fine". I asked "how about in 20 years time when you've left a company which will pay for you to have a US visa. He hadn't considered that.

A friend of mine went to Libya on behalf of the US military about a decade ago. He is no longer eligible for a US esta and thus has to get a visa if he goes on holiday.

Last time I went to India I had to get a real visa which involved travelling to an office in London and waiting around for a couple of hours.

It's quite normal for people of "lesser powered" countries who don't have the power of passport that the US and Western European citizens do. Even before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, you would have to fly for hours to a major Russian city a couple of weeks in advance to apply for a visa to visit the UK.

When I went to Pakistan in 2010 it was even worse. Well until I gave up and then used a visa agency which just handled it all for me.

Last time I tried to go to India I went for an electronic visa, and after 7 days of "waiting" they updated it to say "declined". No explanation.

It's not clear how it is supposed to work in detail. But it sounds like it could be implemented in a way that makes illegitimate queries possible. It doesn't sound like they want to really ensure that you can catch those.

The forgeries are rare, but they are also the people customs cares most about. Those people who are planning to commit a serious crime of some sort.

With that, I much prefer US immigration queues than EU immigration queues — as of 2026, my US times are much faster than my EU times.

Edit apparently some but not all EU passports do, which is weird.

Commercial carriers such as airlines are also not allowed to transport people who need ESTAs/visas and do not have them to the US, so in practice it's relatively difficult to even get to the port of entry without a visa.

Others I imagine issue both types of passports and that's why some people are fingerprinted more often.

Edit: seems like Ireland is the odd one out (Danemark could, but seems to fingerprint).

When passports are valid for 10 years there is always a bit of inertia.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passports_of_the_European_Unio...

Edit: Every time I share my border stories I get accused of lying or having done something wrong. I have much much crazier ones. No one believes it until it happens to them. Count yourself lucky if you've never been strip searched or imprisoned by these psychopaths, any belief they are reasonable are formed because you were lucky and have a naïve sort of optimism that if you do everything right it won't happen to you.

Not to say they don't make mistakes or don't fully read/understand their systems. A co-worker was former LEO, had his id stolen at that time. We were traveling back from an a vendor site across the border, the border agent misunderstood the system alert from "double check this guys docs to make sure he is who he says he is" to "Anyone using this id is traveling under a false name!" So he got held and questioned, called his former supervisor, CPB supervisor came and showed him how to get a travel redress number.

Amusingly, since we were traveling together, I got his luggage off the carousel and kept it with me as I watched them question him. After some time they decided to look at his bags and came looking for them, I told them I had them and he was with me. They took the bags and didn't even want to speak with me.

This seems extremely unlikely to me. Did you stand in the noncitizens line by mistake?

This is a marked contrast to the rest of our immigration, border patrol, and airline security people who are lazy and needlessly aggro as a rule.

But if you asked me to trade the passport check experience of entering the US with the experiences I’ve had trying to get into France or Germany I’d pick the US hands down. Especially Frankfurt. WTF are they doing over there?

I've been routinely grilled and extensively searched many times just crossing between the U.S. and Canada - the most hilarious instance being when I was crossing from Yukon Territory back to Alaska some 10 years ago.

In Latin America, things are considerably more professional, and the government officials don't act like they hate you and just want you to go away. Europe's fine too.