People used to frequent in person things like specialty retailers, arcades, hobby clubs, religious groups, etc. When you meet real life people in person based on shared interests, you make connections across socioeconomic groups.
I just don't see nearly as much of this in todays society as 20+ years ago.
People with kids sometimes experience this via all the activities they take their kids to, but even there a lot of kids activities have become economically stratified. Instead of playing in the local $50/year rec baseball league, there's tiers of travel teams to meet any budget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TrPwOrf4sM
"What's so poignant about this time is the uncertainty"
For video stores, there's Retro Rewind: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3552140/Retro_Rewind__Vid...
There are also games like that for trading-card stores, video arcades, and record stores.
(I'm probably going to buy the record store one, "Wax Heads." Being a music-genre nerd and recommending bands to people is a fantasy that I was born 10 years too late to do in real life.)
Just having everything listed on 50 different streaming platforms isn't the same experience. There are things we really lose with efficiency gains.
The screaming and explosions from the movie trailers playing full blast on a non-stop loop throughout the store over the PA didn't help.
What universe is this person from? I must have missed it...
I've been kind of puzzled, since the first time I gave it any thought, why "going to a movie" is culturally thought of as an activity one does with a companion, even a date. Much like dining out in a sit-down restaurant. Yet the expectation is that you sit in silence for 2 hours and spend maybe 5-10 minutes critiquing or raving as you walk out.
But now I'm wondering if the custom of doing this together is a vestigial one, formed in a time when the 'going to the cinema' was a more social event even as late as the drive-in era (I have never experienced a drive-in).
I do think we've lost a lot of "civic life" in the past few decades but video rental stores aren't anything I remember fondly.
I spent so many hours at our local mall with my friends growing up. It had an arcade, a movie theater, book store, game store, place to eat. Our parents could just drop us there for hours. Skating rinks and bowling alleys were also a solid option.
It's one of the things that make it worth the time investment to follow sports, even if you're typically not interested in it. Getting people together to watch the game, go to games, tailgate, etc is huge.
Whatever happened to pubs and the shared interest of drinking beer (and getting drunk in the process ...)? ;-)
This is something welcome I didn’t expect to come from parenthood. Like many others I had thought to myself “how do you even make new friends in your thirties?!” and then once I had kids… bam. New friendship groups.
For us the local park and playground are a great equalizer in terms of economic stratification. But when the weather turns bad it rears its head again as people head to $50 a go trampoline parks and the like.
Public school is another unifier, of course. I’m in NYC and our preschool was very obviously not a reflection of the neighborhood or city around us. But once my kids entered the city-funded Pre-K they started to meet a ton of kids from different backgrounds. It’s very different from the childhood I had but I’m very glad my kids have it.
When I was living in Iran, we didn't need a hobby club to meet people, you just picked up the phone and everyone came over. I have vivid memories of going on trips with 5 cars filled with people
When I went to Peru with my wife to meet her extended family, it was very similar. Heck you can just randomly talk to people and meet them. At 9PM, the streets are exploding with people in Arequipa or Tehran.
The biggest difference is that in the West, people have the idea of "personal space", which doesn't really exist in some culture. People are seen more as one, rather than many. Of course this has its own downsides, but I suppose nothing is perfect.
Well, they were a business after all. And what's being romanticised is the civic experience of that bygone era. The modern experience sucks. It is devoid of any real human interaction. That is highly missing part in the modern landscape and it will only get worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEEj6d3GTOU
I don't think any movie could better capture the atmosphere and culture of a 1980s video store better than "Clerks." For example, the various types of annoying video store customers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9khHJTztKk
Ordering obscene videos from the warehouse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwFjw798mPI
And some period-era fanfic filmed in an IRL video rental store.
In the mid-2000s, my hometown decided to build a town square. They put it at the edge of town next to the train station, where it would look nice for commuters but not where people lived so it was always empty.
Any place you have to physically go to provides a chance for social interaction. To debate your friends over what movie to pick, to comment on your neighbor's selections, to ask a clerk for a recommendation. Are these pretty slight? Sure, but life is made fuller by these minor brushes, and you never know which ones will unexpectedly bloom into something more.
Plenty of cheap dirt. It's cheap because between zoning setback frontage requirement bullshit and the environmentalists you can't do anything on it.
Because after going to the movie, you've all seen it, and so can talk about it with each other.
> spend maybe 5-10 minutes critiquing or raving as you walk out.
It's not just for that trip, but it'll be a shared touchpoint. And if it's something you really enjoyed, it's something you'll be able to talk about together for years—like going to see Star Wars as a kid.
[0] https://www.dailycamera.com/2017/02/27/the-video-station-bou...
One thing I think is that theres just never enough time. Everyone is so over-scheduled. The white collar work day really has expanded vs what I remember my dad doing 30-40 years ago. There's more two income households than in the past. Parenting is far more active for both parents than it's ever been, and kids are being shuttled between events all weekend.
Most local shops are not open past 5pm or at best 6pm, and often closed Sunday. Who is off work by then to stop by?
Easier to click buy on amazon, and stop by the big box store after dinner Saturday open til 9pm for anything you need sooner.
It sounds good in principle. And I was very excited when discovering the Internet (Usenet) and a place to discuss all my geeky interests with many similar minded people.
However, now that the Internet has so overpowered in person relationships across the board, the cost in mental health, anxiety and general unhappiness is staggering.
We may recognize a handle on a forum, but most of the time we don't know anything about the other person other than a narrow part of their interests.
The way things are going maybe we'll get back to those wonderful days. ;)
The near universal proliferation of owner's associations and management groups and whatnot is something you can lay square at the feet of the environmentalists.
Some big commercial developer developing a subdivision in 1970 would've allocated a couple lots as a park owned by the city or town. I live in a neighborhood like this.
Now those empty lots and the exact layout of plantings on them are a key part of the green space on the site plan that makes the bullshit spreadsheet math that is required for your stormwater or environmental math to pass requirements. And and some legal entity has to be responsible for that in perpetuity. Enter the HOA. And of course then they make all this stuff private because they can market the units in the development better that way.
You did. It was a fairly widespread thing.
Although "The video store was always just a means to an end for me" indicates that you excluded yourself from this, rather than missing out on it.
Let me unpack a little bit.
I very rarely go to movies and really haven't for years. So it isn't a social activity so mostly won't except for the odd shoe in IMAX.
I will go see live theatre with someone or maybe a group. But am also perfectly happy to do so on my own.
As to meals? I'm so inured to solo meals with business travel I don't think twice. Enjoy eating with friend(s) whether in a business or purely social context. But it's not like I'm going to order room service or go to McDonalds if I don't have anyone to sit with.
This was exactly the subdivision I grew up in. The "park" was just a few vacant lots in the middle of the neighborhood. That's all it was for years, eventually the city put in a shelterhouse and a couple of picnic tables, a basketball court, and a baseball diamond.
Facebook jumped the shark when it eliminated customization and forced everyone to have the same personal page.
"Pieces of Flair" and a thousand other ways to express yourself were extinguished, along with any actual "social" aspects of Facebook.
It wasn't a disaster until megaplatforms came alone.
Obvious anecdata, but within an easy walk or bike radius of me (a couple miles) there are 3 public libraries, something like half a square mile of parks, a few public basketball courts, a few public tennis courts, a public baseball field, a bar over the baseball field that welcomes children (it’s one of the veterans things and has board games and what not), at least a dozen other businesses that don’t care if you buy anything, and your usual litany of Walmart kind of places that can’t be bothered to track who is buying and who isn’t.
I don’t have any issues finding places to hang out for free, and I use them, but they’re pretty sparsely used so it’s not as 3rd space as it used to be.
Eg I walk my dogs most mornings, and I rarely see more than 1 other person at the park or dog park at 7 or 8am.
It feels to me like 3rd spaces are disappearing because people don’t use them, rather than people don’t use them because they don’t exist.
The shift to the algorithmic "Feed" established adversarial incentives across the board - the platforms are incentivized to addict and enrage, the individuals are incentivized not to be vulnerable for friends, but to be viral and get approval of the public, since if your posts don't perform for strangers, the algorithm won't even show them to your closest friends.
The Internet gave us an easier way to make "friends" with no apparent downsides, only to rugpull us all as soon as most of the 'pre-Internet' places and social habits had been completely destroyed. Now we are all obviously lonely and hate the Internet mess, but whole generations are now too awkward to even speak to others in person, just from lack of experience.
you either disappear like tumblr or you stay up long enough to turn into a dumpster fire.
Plus, pre-smartphone, most people (note: not saying all people) loved talking to other people, so even a movie store employee who wasn't a major film buff would be someone you could build up a rapport with just based on the fact that you're a regular who talks with them. My dad was that way with most of the staff at dozens of the small businesses in town, and even the 'corporate' places like McDonald's, etc.
We do the exact same thing now except use a phone or tablet.
If you live in a society that really devalues everything you like, having that online outlet is the difference between giving up on life[1], and being passionate.
Imagine being told you're broken because you like books, movies, and video games, and having almost every aspect of society reinforce that message.
[1] Not in the suicide sense, but in the "Life will always suck" sense.
When we're young, we have nothing but time spent together. As adults, who spend an hour at the local park with some kids, those relationships require more effort to grow.
We have a few friends we've made through our kid, and it definitely takes more work to maintain - but it's been very worth it so far.
I think it was a lot harder when I was 18 because I saw being alone as a reflection on my worth as a person.
Great job, Gen-X parents.
And I’m the nerd minority who “couldn’t wait to get out of this place.”
Now, I would still go to a big city where I could find people with similar interests. But the cost to society of all the Internet has wrought has been far too high.
Kids desperately need third spaces too.
FTFY ;-)
But, yeah, looking back I think I was a lot less inclined to just eat by myself in a restaurant--partially because I could often rope someone else in or would know people if I went into a dining hall and partly because I wasn't accustomed to just having a meal without anyone else around.
Going to a university in a city helped a lot with that. Long conversations about comic books with friends, going to the nearby comics store on new release day with lots of other nerds, etc.
I’m no longer convinced adding the Internet to that has been a net positive. Maybe if we could have froze its growth and development at some specific point…?
Decades before recommendation algorithms, video stores served as social hubs where conversation and camaraderie became a form of taste-making.

Hollywood Video was a VHS, DVD, and video game rental shop company started in 1988. It ceased operations, after declaring bankruptcy, in 2010. Credit: Flickr / The MIT Press Reader
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If a DVD owner from the year 2005 found herself transported back to a video store circa 1982, she would likely find the space remarkably familiar: videocassette cases lining the walls, a movie playing on a television set, maybe some marquee lights framing an announcement board over the checkout counter — all in all, not terribly unlike the video store of two and a half decades later.
However, understanding the video store simply as a transactional space in which money is exchanged for goods and services misses the forest for the trees.
That same time-traveling video renter might find herself startled by the employee offering to recommend a movie, or by the knot of customers hanging out by the counter, shooting the breeze and discussing film. The early video store was often a place to talk as well as to shop, and the persona and expertise of retailers and clerks structured the consumer experience of home video as much as the shelves on the wall. The people behind the counter, and in many cases those in front of it, were not merely moving through the consumption junction but were, in fact, integral parts of it.
Consider the English pub, the French café, the German beer garden, or the American tavern: These are places where patrons can buy food or drink. But an analysis that focuses only on the producer/consumer exchange would overlook the vital role these and other spaces play in establishing and maintaining broader social relationships. Sociologist Ray Oldenburg describes such spaces as “third places,” a category that he uses to refer to “a great variety of public places that host the regular, voluntary, informal, and happily anticipated gatherings of individuals beyond the realms of home and work.” Such places serve to unite the neighborhood through simple, day-to-day interaction. For example, Oldenburg writes, “In many [American] communities, the post office served this function well when everyone had a mailbox there; when everybody had to walk or drive to it; and it was kept open, by law, twenty-four hours a day.”
Third places offer environments within which communities can cohere. A local bar, for example, offers its patrons a place to socialize outside of home and work, establishing a sense of commonality between its denizens. The primary mechanism for this community-building is simple conversation. As Oldenburg puts it, “Nothing more clearly indicates a third place than that the talk there is good; that it is lively, scintillating, colorful, and engaging.”
This orientation toward lively conversation was also a social leveler; third places “counter the tendency to be restrictive in the enjoyment of others by being open to all and by laying emphasis on qualities not confined to status distinctions current in the society. Within third places, the charm and flavor of one’s personality, irrespective of his or her station in life, is what counts.” Another core attribute of third places is the sense of shared ownership among its regulars, regardless of who actually owns the building. “Those who claim a third place typically refer to it in the first person possessive (“Rudy’s is our hangout”), and they behave there much as if they did own the place.”
For much of American history, the theater served as such a third place, as sociologist Richard Butsch chronicles in his social history of American audiences. It was a space where classes mingled and served as a nucleus for “community conversation and civic participation.” Describing late-19th-century Yiddish theater, for example, Butsch writes that “the theater was a social center. The Lower East Side provided little public space other than the streets, [and] theaters were among the few places where people could gather at little cost; they were commercial substitutes for the piazzas and other places in European villages and towns, where these immigrants had been accustomed to gather and talk.”
Understanding the video store simply as a transactional space in which money is exchanged for goods and services misses the forest for the trees.
The emergence of motion pictures in the media landscape fit well with theaters’ preexisting role in cultural life. Nickelodeons’ lower prices earned them the nickname “democracy’s theater[s],” and an even more diverse set of patrons mixed within their dark rooms. At the same time, in rural America, small-town residents had developed a thriving tradition of gathering at local town halls and opera houses for “homegrown and family centered” entertainment such as “performances by local bands, neighborhood amateur singing, recitals, pageants, tableaux, lectures, and political speeches,” and the initial appearance of traveling motion picture shows was constructed in the mold of this moral, community-centered vision of entertainment.
Over the 20th century, however, the movie theater receded in importance as a social and community space. By the end of the 1930s, Butsch argues, “the movie, not the place . . . [was] the attraction.” Talking and sociability were frowned upon at mainstream theaters, except at children’s matinees, which continued to serve as community events for decades. Meanwhile, through the 1950s and 1960s, the drive-in theater took on much of the role that the earlier movie theater had played, serving as a third place for local youth and families where the space and interactions with other audience members were as important as the movie (if not more so). But even this drive-in culture began to disappear within a few decades, and by the 1970s, moviegoing had waned as a fundamentally social (rather than individual) institution.
The traditional story told about home video is that its sudden appearance fragmented the moviegoing audience into individuals. As Butsch and others have argued, home video helped the viewing public wall themselves off in their separate living rooms. What this argument misses, however, is the shared practice of acquiring those tapes and then watching them at home — in its early years, the video store became a third place where customers, retailers, and clerks met, talked, and shared a common experience of movies on videocassette.
Writing about American taverns, Oldenburg describes the curious position of the bartender: “Good bartenders have the knack of getting their customers together and of making sure that the return patron will have at least one personal greeting each time he or she stops in.” The bartender is the host of the third place, “that font of local information, that symbol of authority, that arbiter of disputes, that ‘character,’” and a good host is essential to establishing and maintaining the vibrant culture of a third place.
A key aspect of the video store’s clerk/customer relationship was exactly the sort of local authority that Oldenburg mentions. Just as bartenders were expected to be up to speed on the concerns of the community of regulars, video clerks were expected to have a certain level of expertise with the items at the center of video store culture: the movies themselves.
In video stores, the person behind the counter set the tone. Many early store owners were simply social people, eager to engage with their customers. Matt Ratto, whose father, Gary, owned a video store in Merced, California, recalls one thing above all else: “He just talked. He always talked so much . . . He knew everybody by name, and when people would come in, he’d give them recommendations, and they’d chat about the weather, what was going on in Merced or whatever.” At an acting conservatory years later, Ratto found that a colleague who had lived in Merced remembered his father’s store and shared the same memory: “I remember your dad with his big mustache, always talking.”
Though early video stores were often seen as questionable influences (thanks to their selection of adult videos), retailers saw themselves as part of a larger community. Gary Ratto, for example, “felt like part of his responsibility was to be able to advise people about what they were going to see, so that they could make judgment calls about whether or not their children should watch it . . . it was very much a neighborhood thing.”
Retailers were often strong supporters of community activities, sponsoring Little League baseball teams and even running voter registration drives. In some cases, video stores reached out to local celebrities; former clerk Mark Stencel remembers his boss giving free memberships to members of the professional football team whose training camp was a short drive from the store. For regular customers, it gave the video store an added draw because “there was a good chance that anytime you came in, in the late afternoon, you could sort of meet one of the Washington Redskins.”
As the video clerk’s expert identity developed, customer interactions often became less balanced, with clerks asserting their dominance over the movies that formed the video store’s core and, in turn, over the store’s dynamics. “Almost all employees were very knowledgeable movie geeks,” remembers one Movies Unlimited customer. “They’d talk to you if you were renting something interesting, recommend edgy arthouse stuff.” Perhaps the most interesting thing about this comment is the implication that the customer wanted to be judged interesting and edgy, cool enough to be accepted by the video store employees. The store was a meritocracy of sorts, and a customer could be welcomed into the inner circle by displaying the same sort of expertise for which the clerks were hired in the first place.
Occasionally, employees developed inside jokes that reinforced their sense of superiority over customers. Notes were left in customer files, particularly as stores began to computerize their records. The clerk culture was strongly adolescent and strongly male.
“Total strangers were talking to each other; it was really a phenomenon.”
“I remember my assistant manager . . . and I would memorize the account numbers of all the good-looking girls that would come in and rent. We’d say to one another, ‘Didn’t 57803 look hot last night?’ ‘Hell yeah!’” Though experts, clerks weren’t always trustworthy mediators and occasionally developed small games that played off the advice they gave to customers. “The most memorable thing to me,” recalls an employee of the Stop and Shop Video Center in Milford, Massachusetts, “was on Saturday nights after all the new releases were rented out, having contests trying to rent the worst movies to the customers. I won one night by getting one person to rent ‘Ishtar, The Sex O’clock News,’ and ‘Flesh Gordon’ at once.”
Video store employees played out this power differential by asserting their dominance over customers. “We knew this customer,” remembers Rich Nathanson. “He came in, and he’s looking at the movies, and he goes, ‘Santa Claus movie, what’s that about?’ And the clerk said, ‘It’s about the fucking Easter Bunny. What do you think?’” Of course, Nathanson is careful to explain, these sorts of comments were made with a wink and the ultimate message that “we’re just joking with you.”
While the clerk-customer relationship was at times tinged with chest-thumping, clerks were usually regarded as benevolent figures who offered good advice and good conversation to those seeking either. If anything, customers sometimes overestimated the clerk’s abilities.
“The most frequently used in-joke in the store,” recalls Pat Nestor, an employee at the Video Quest store in New York State, “was the ‘WITGiTIHS’ customers. ‘WITGiTIHS’ stands for the customers who would come in and ask ‘What’s In That’s Good, That I Haven’t Seen?’ like we were mind readers and knew what the hell they had already seen.” At the same time, those customers who saw the video store as their third place often developed a personal relationship with their video clerk. Michael Dark, who helped run several stores, was invited to dinner at some of his customers’ homes and even dated several of his customers’ daughters.
While clerks were usually seen as the in-store experts, the flow of information was by no means unidirectional. Many of the earliest video store customers were film buffs themselves, and the lucky clerk who happened to be working when one came in might be in for an education. “I remember [one customer who] really knew the old stuff . . . like old B movies and serials,” says Lance Strate, who worked at Arthur Morowitz’s Video Shack in the early 1980s. “That’s where I first learned about Tom Mix and the ‘Phantom Empire’ . . . Also, Adolph Green came in once. I didn’t know who he was, and I remember him pointing out ‘Singin’ in the Rain’ to me.”
At their best, video clerks and store owners fostered a true third-place atmosphere in their stores. “There was always conversation in our store,” recalls Jerry Frebowitz, owner of Philadelphia’s Movies Unlimited. “Especially on Saturdays . . . there was so much film talk going on. Total strangers were talking to each other; it was really a phenomenon.” Though his customers always came to rent a movie, Frebowitz says, “They definitely stayed to talk . . . hardly anybody came in to get the movie and leave.”
Joshua M. Greenber****g is a Program Director at the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. He is the author of “From Betamax to Blockbuster,” from which this article is adapted.
Wait, is this a career option I should have been aspiring to? I wonder if it's too late...
Meetup could be superceded by the hitch/tinder model to organize activities with individuals over scheduled events ran by organizers.
Presumably because people spend less money there than they used to.
> I'd bet in most communities their funding/availability has decreased in that time period.
It's one of the tragedies of our age. The inability to fund anything for the common good.
In theory, the adults were hunting or fishing (although not with pointy sticks). In reality they were smoking, drinking, playing cards, screwing around on the little boat and atvs that were there (three wheelers!), and telling lies around a campfire. Us kids were pretty much on our own the entire time. We too were smoking, drinking, and screwing around on the boat and atvs.
So I agree with you- pointy stick hunting is a great weekend activity.
People voted with their wallets.
> public libraries are under constant attack by republicans
Voters get the services they vote for.
All of us are to blame.
It's hard to feel bad about a small backwoods town of idiots who vote to shut down their public libraries (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/book-ban-lgbtq-jamestown-michig...) but there are efforts on the federal level too (https://www.ala.org/faq-executive-order-targeting-imls). Right wing nutjobs all over the country have been threatening library staff and calling in bomb threats and we can't vote them out
This applies to adjacent industries as well. I semi-regularly get email from firms (in the same time zone as mine) in the 11PM–2AM range.
Again, I'm not purporting to have any more experience than you do, but you can't assert that this is a tech-industry-only phenomenon when I am sure applicable examples other than my own could be found. I wish I could go without, but spending the first billable hour catching up on email is not really acceptable.
So many bug bites.
I think we mostly all agree that we as a society caused the problem, but we can't go back and undo that. Constructive would be coming up with ways we can, given the past did take place, improve things going forward.
We can vote for politicians that fund projects and facilities for general use and welfare. We can congregate more in the malls and community centers and bowling alleys (and churches too, if that's your style), that we still have. The loss of community isn't irreversible. Yet.
Putting aside the increasing efforts to limit our ability to vote for change, we have to fight against very well funded campaigns trying to convince people that we shouldn't fund projects and facilities for general use and welfare. There's a lot money and power being used to encourage people to be more isolated as well. The public is growing less educated and more fearful. People have fewer friends, fewer social skills, and historically high levels of anxiety and depression.
While there may still be places to go, the ones that don't cost money are going away or at risk, and the problem goes deeper than access to physical spaces. Some things will have to change before we can expect people to really take advantage of what spaces we have left.